3 ms·

I agree with your point, but: > Graphs give me a much better idea of what I'd actually be getting The issue with that is that you "have to have the feel" for

I agree with your point, but: > Graphs give me a much better idea of what I'd actually be getting The issue with that is that you "have to have the feel" for the graph. Except for extreme circumstances, if you're not familiar with how to approximate the feel from the graph, it won't really help you. I guess my point is that you still have to have some kind of actual, real-world experience. In my case, I kind of deduced that I liked "bumpy" switches, so I went the "brown" route. I was happy with my Gateron Browns. When I wanted a second keyboard to not haul the first around, I figured Cherry Brown would be "close enough". They supposedly have the same specs and everything. Nope. They feel much "harder" to press. I do like them enough, so I didn't send the KB back. But I do tend to miss some keys when I switch from Gateron to Cherry, and I do tend to press like crazy on the Gateron after switching from the Cherry.

PaulHoule 5y ago
The graph itself has an absurd number of variables. Graphs don't have a natural ordering, though you could make one such as "area between the up and down curves". My pet peeve is fat fingering. To first order I think any keyboard sucks if I am afraid to use the backspace or home button because I risk toggling the "insert/replace". The force curve might have something to do with that, you might also take some objective measurements about the key layout that are predictive of that, but I could waste a huge amount of time trying out "bad" keyboards without prediction of my personal fat finger rate.
klyrs 5y ago
> The issue with that is that you "have to have the feel" for the graph This is true; it takes time and effort to understand anything quantifiable once it's been quantified. As somebody with extensive experience with math and physics, I didn't really grok the force/displacement plots on first glance. So, I read the axes. That got me most of the way there. Then, I looked at the force/displacement plots of various keyswitches, and reflected on my own experience with keyboards from clacky to mushy. So, yes, you do need actual real-world experience with keyboards. With that experience, and the skill of reading a plot, you can get a good sense of what to expect without actual real-world experience with this specific keyswitch. Got me curious, because cherry browns are considered "lighter" than gateron browns. Looking at the data, they take less force to register a keypress, but more force to bottom out. So, that's a perfect example of why you can't trust individual reviewers: some are interested in getting a keypress, some are more focused on bottom-out force. https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile/gateron-brown/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc... https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile/cherry-mx-brown/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc...
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  It's funny, those are the exact pages I checked when answering. But as someone who's not particularly well versed in physics, it's not clear to me how much of a difference 1 gf makes in terms of feel. Plus, on the same pages, regarding actuation, it says that the Cherry is "light", whereas the Gateron is "medium". But a few lines below, the actuation force is actually higher on the Cherry (37 gf vs 36 gf). Also, the "spring force" is higher on the Cherry, so maybe it's expected for it be "stiffer"?

PaulHoule 5y ago

The graph itself has an absurd number of variables. Graphs don't have a natural ordering, though you could make one such as "area between the up and down curves". My pet peeve is fat fingering. To first order I think any keyboard sucks if I am afraid to use the backspace or home button because I risk toggling the "insert/replace". The force curve might have something to do with that, you might also take some objective measurements about the key layout that are predictive of that, but I could waste a huge amount of time trying out "bad" keyboards without prediction of my personal fat finger rate.

klyrs 5y ago

> The issue with that is that you "have to have the feel" for the graph This is true; it takes time and effort to understand anything quantifiable once it's been quantified. As somebody with extensive experience with math and physics, I didn't really grok the force/displacement plots on first glance. So, I read the axes. That got me most of the way there. Then, I looked at the force/displacement plots of various keyswitches, and reflected on my own experience with keyboards from clacky to mushy. So, yes, you do need actual real-world experience with keyboards. With that experience, and the skill of reading a plot, you can get a good sense of what to expect without actual real-world experience with this specific keyswitch. Got me curious, because cherry browns are considered "lighter" than gateron browns. Looking at the data, they take less force to register a keypress, but more force to bottom out. So, that's a perfect example of why you can't trust individual reviewers: some are interested in getting a keypress, some are more focused on bottom-out force. https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile/gateron-brown/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc... https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile/cherry-mx-brown/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc...

vladvasiliu 5y ago
It's funny, those are the exact pages I checked when answering. But as someone who's not particularly well versed in physics, it's not clear to me how much of a difference 1 gf makes in terms of feel. Plus, on the same pages, regarding actuation, it says that the Cherry is "light", whereas the Gateron is "medium". But a few lines below, the actuation force is actually higher on the Cherry (37 gf vs 36 gf). Also, the "spring force" is higher on the Cherry, so maybe it's expected for it be "stiffer"?