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I want to know what "corner of the world" the author lives in where home prices have gone from ~2x annual income to ~16x now Annual median household income in

I want to know what "corner of the world" the author lives in where home prices have gone from ~2x annual income to ~16x now Annual median household income in the US was ~$67k in 2020 [0]. It was less than $10k in 1970 [3]. Median home sales prices are hovering around $425k [1] (vs ~$17k 50y ago [4] (adjusted to 2000 dollars it was ~65k [5])) That's less than 7x annual household income, not 16X Add-in average home sizes increasing dramatically in the last 50 years, (1770 sq ft to 2687 sq ft [2]), "basics" like central HVAC now being standard (they weren't not too long ago), and myriad other "table stakes" to a modern house, and it only makes sense housing prices have increased If anything, they've increased far slower than the author claims, because ------------ [0] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/demo/p60-273.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/demo/p60-27... [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS [2] https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/average-square-footage-of-a-house https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/average-square-footage-... [3] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1971/demo/p60-78.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1971/demo/p60-78... [4] https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/tables/time-series/coh-values/values-unadj.txt https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/tables/ti... [5] https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/tables/time-series/coh-values/values-adj.txt https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/tables/ti...

TimPC 5y ago
The relevant market is Toronto. I agree if you look at markets like the entire US including major rural and suburban areas the story is quite different but I think what you've done is average a bunch of shrinking economies into the rapidly growing ones. I could have been more clear that this was about housing prices in rapidly growing major urban centres rather than housing prices anywhere in the nation.
- warrenm 5y ago
  That's why I dealt with median and not average :) Sure, there are a minor handful of nutty expensive (and cheap) markets ... but they're just that - a handful
  - TimPC 5y ago
    Dealing with median instead of average doesn't solve the problem though. I'm writing an article about real estate prices in areas where real estate prices are growing rapidly and are quite high. I've said that the good times can't continue forever and have found some metrics that indicate why. You've said these markets aren't reflective of all of America and if we look at the 50th percentile of house the situation looks rather different. I agree the situation looks different but I don't see how that in any way refutes my point about the specific market.
    - warrenm 5y ago
      Median is exactly the proper way to look at it Averages are a horrible way to look at things like housing prices, incomes, etc The median income of Canada may not be the median income or Toronto, but you still want to look at the median, and never the average In 1984, the college major with the highest average starting salary was Cultural Geography Know why? Michael Jordan Averages are very deceiving most of the time
      - TimPC 5y ago
        The median of Canada is a terrible way to look at the housing prices of Toronto. The median of the USA is a terrible way to look at the housing prices of San Francisco. As much as it can be tempting to say "median is a great statistic" and it's even true that it's usually better than average. That doesn't make it a panacea and that doesn't make it do things it's not intended to do. There is some merit to me getting data to compute median housing prices in Toronto and redoing the analysis based on that. Still an analysis of average housing prices in Toronto is far more useful to the Toronto market than an analysis of median housing prices in Canada.
        warrenm 5y ago
        Medians are the only sane way to compare anything Median income in San Jose is not the same as median income in the entirety of the US - but it's the median in the area you're looking at I honestly don't understand why you have such a hard time understanding this - unless you just want to post hyperbolic complaints about a city you cannot afford to live in, perhaps

TimPC 5y ago

The relevant market is Toronto. I agree if you look at markets like the entire US including major rural and suburban areas the story is quite different but I think what you've done is average a bunch of shrinking economies into the rapidly growing ones. I could have been more clear that this was about housing prices in rapidly growing major urban centres rather than housing prices anywhere in the nation.

warrenm 5y ago
That's why I dealt with median and not average :) Sure, there are a minor handful of nutty expensive (and cheap) markets ... but they're just that - a handful
- TimPC 5y ago
  Dealing with median instead of average doesn't solve the problem though. I'm writing an article about real estate prices in areas where real estate prices are growing rapidly and are quite high. I've said that the good times can't continue forever and have found some metrics that indicate why. You've said these markets aren't reflective of all of America and if we look at the 50th percentile of house the situation looks rather different. I agree the situation looks different but I don't see how that in any way refutes my point about the specific market.
  - warrenm 5y ago
    Median is exactly the proper way to look at it Averages are a horrible way to look at things like housing prices, incomes, etc The median income of Canada may not be the median income or Toronto, but you still want to look at the median, and never the average In 1984, the college major with the highest average starting salary was Cultural Geography Know why? Michael Jordan Averages are very deceiving most of the time
    - TimPC 5y ago
      The median of Canada is a terrible way to look at the housing prices of Toronto. The median of the USA is a terrible way to look at the housing prices of San Francisco. As much as it can be tempting to say "median is a great statistic" and it's even true that it's usually better than average. That doesn't make it a panacea and that doesn't make it do things it's not intended to do. There is some merit to me getting data to compute median housing prices in Toronto and redoing the analysis based on that. Still an analysis of average housing prices in Toronto is far more useful to the Toronto market than an analysis of median housing prices in Canada.
      - warrenm 5y ago
        Medians are the only sane way to compare anything Median income in San Jose is not the same as median income in the entirety of the US - but it's the median in the area you're looking at I honestly don't understand why you have such a hard time understanding this - unless you just want to post hyperbolic complaints about a city you cannot afford to live in, perhaps