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SIPRI's top ten military spenders 2021, with help from Wikipedia [0] 1. USA: $801 billion 2. China: $293 billion 3. India: $76.6 billion 4. UK: $68.4 b

by nanna 5y ago

SIPRI's top ten military spenders 2021, with help from Wikipedia [0] 1. USA: $801 billion 2. China: $293 billion 3. India: $76.6 billion 4. UK: $68.4 billion 5. Russia: $65.9 billion 6. France: $56.6 billion 7. Germany: $56.0 billion 8. Saudia Arabia: $55.6 billion 9. Japan: $54.1 billion 10. S. Korea: $50.2 billion [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_...

UnpossibleJim 5y ago
I think the real issue is an issue of priorities. You don't even have to compare the US to other countries but compare the US to ourselves. Approximately half of our total spending goes to our military budget[1], and we complain about spending on social programs and college funding, having people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". https://www.nationalpriorities.org/blog/2021/04/09/biden-2022-budget-raises-military-spending-past-750-billion/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/blog/2021/04/09/biden-202...
- umeshunni 5y ago
  Who is us?
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    Whoops... forgot caps. Was supposed to be the US. I'll fix it. I'm doing this while I get my caffeine ready =[
  - DaltonCoffee 5y ago
    We're #1 We're #1
- mrep 5y ago
  Half of Discretionary spending which does not include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    Oh, to be honest I'm not sure how that works. Discretionary spending makes it sound like it's just pocket money. 1.5 trillion dollars doesn't sound like pocket money, and this is the budget that all of the news outlets seem to discuss as "the budget"... what's the other budget that social security, medicare and medicaid come out of so that I can look up that spending and what comes out of that and how much that is? - this seems purposefully complicated, tbh. I've heard this referred to as "the federal budget" for so long (and yes, I'm referring to the US federal budget), I thought they were referring to the complete budget (state budgets aside). That being said, I do understand my naivete =/ EDIT... I meant to say thank you in that post. that chart is awesome, btw
    - airstrike 5y ago
      > Discretionary spending makes it sound like it's just pocket money. It doesn't, really. "Discretionary spending" has a specific meaning, it's not just a casual choice of words. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_States_federal_budget#Discretionary_vs._mandatory_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_Sta...
- parkingrift 5y ago
  That’s just discretionary spending. Discretionary spending is less than half of total US federal spending. The biggest single expense budgets by far are welfare or welfare related. https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spending/categories/ https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spend...
robinsoh 5y ago
I find the per-capita military spending very interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1 USA 3806.4 2020 Estimate[3] 2 Israel 2507.6 2020 Precise 3 UAE 2020.4 2020 Estimate[2] 4 Singapore 1855.5 2020 Precise 5 Saudi Arabia 1652.2 2020 Estimate 6 Kuwait 1625.3 2020 Precise 7 Oman 1317.8 2020 Estimate 8 Norway 1312.0 2020 Precise 9 Australia 1079.9 2020 Precise 10 Qatar 1011.0 2010 Precise I can understand Singapore needing to protect itself against aggressive neighbours and all the Middle Eastern countries (including Israel). But Australia, who are they planning to fight? Timor? Papua?
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  Australia plans to fight China.
  - kspacewalk2 5y ago
    Australia plans to defend itself in case one of the Chinas attacks. The one that's neither people's nor a republic, despite calling itself so.
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      > Australia plans to defend itself in case one of the Chinas attacks. I'm not sure I find that very plausible. Especially when I find out about stuff like this where Australia has been extracting resources from its smaller powerless neighbors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_s... The Australia–East Timor spying scandal began in 2004 when the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) clandestinely planted covert listening devices in a room adjacent to the East Timor (Timor-Leste) Prime Minister's Office at Dili, to obtain information in order to ensure Australia held the upper hand in negotiations with East Timor over the rich oil and gas fields in the Timor Gap.[1] Even though the East Timor government was unaware of the espionage operation undertaken by Australia, negotiations were hostile. The first Prime Minister of East Timor, Mari Alkatiri, bluntly accused the Howard Government of plundering the oil and gas in the Timor Sea, stating: "Timor-Leste loses $1 million a day due to Australia's unlawful exploitation of resources in the disputed area. Timor-Leste cannot be deprived of its rights or territory because of a crime."[2] https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/989546260/i-remember-them-screaming-afghans-detail-alleged-killings-by-australian-military https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/989546260/i-remember-them-scr... 'I Remember Them Screaming': Afghans Detail Alleged Killings By Australian Military
kraussvonespy 5y ago
So rough math shows that the US spends more on military than the next 10 countries put together. Or put another way, spends 40% of all world military spending. While I get that military R&D occasionally produces tangible benefits to society, I suspect that if we poured 5% of the military budget into the state department and actually tried diplomacy more often, the rest of the military budget could get cut at least in half. Because of the level of corruption and the amount of money to be made by military contractor grifters, this isn't going to change. Better to build better ways to kill people than to solve things like poverty, mass mental illness and so on. 'merica fuck yeah and all that.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Interesting. Can you describe a scenario where western diplomacy would have prevented the current situation in Ukraine? We can assume that the State Department's budget was any number you like in our example.
- sremani 5y ago
  Linear thinking .. like let us spend the money from military to diplomatic and civilian aid, sounds great, until you see and understand how the fiefdoms of State department and USAID are built and operated. We have State department and CIA full of people who cannot speak a second language, let alone the native language of country where they are stationed. End up living in a bubble that feels like a Western enclave -- too far from realities of the people of those countries. I would rather have corrupt hard power instead of feel good fake soft power.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    Same colonial empire building, new branding
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  US offers defense guarantees, weapons and munitions to many nations in exchange for soft power. Approx $120B/year in sales alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_pact

by nanna 5y ago

UnpossibleJim 5y ago

I think the real issue is an issue of priorities. You don't even have to compare the US to other countries but compare the US to ourselves. Approximately half of our total spending goes to our military budget[1], and we complain about spending on social programs and college funding, having people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". https://www.nationalpriorities.org/blog/2021/04/09/biden-2022-budget-raises-military-spending-past-750-billion/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/blog/2021/04/09/biden-202...

umeshunni 5y ago
Who is us?
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  Whoops... forgot caps. Was supposed to be the US. I'll fix it. I'm doing this while I get my caffeine ready =[
- DaltonCoffee 5y ago
  We're #1 We're #1
mrep 5y ago
Half of Discretionary spending which does not include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  Oh, to be honest I'm not sure how that works. Discretionary spending makes it sound like it's just pocket money. 1.5 trillion dollars doesn't sound like pocket money, and this is the budget that all of the news outlets seem to discuss as "the budget"... what's the other budget that social security, medicare and medicaid come out of so that I can look up that spending and what comes out of that and how much that is? - this seems purposefully complicated, tbh. I've heard this referred to as "the federal budget" for so long (and yes, I'm referring to the US federal budget), I thought they were referring to the complete budget (state budgets aside). That being said, I do understand my naivete =/ EDIT... I meant to say thank you in that post. that chart is awesome, btw
  - airstrike 5y ago
    > Discretionary spending makes it sound like it's just pocket money. It doesn't, really. "Discretionary spending" has a specific meaning, it's not just a casual choice of words. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_States_federal_budget#Discretionary_vs._mandatory_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_Sta...
parkingrift 5y ago
That’s just discretionary spending. Discretionary spending is less than half of total US federal spending. The biggest single expense budgets by far are welfare or welfare related. https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spending/categories/ https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spend...

robinsoh 5y ago

I find the per-capita military spending very interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1 USA 3806.4 2020 Estimate[3] 2 Israel 2507.6 2020 Precise 3 UAE 2020.4 2020 Estimate[2] 4 Singapore 1855.5 2020 Precise 5 Saudi Arabia 1652.2 2020 Estimate 6 Kuwait 1625.3 2020 Precise 7 Oman 1317.8 2020 Estimate 8 Norway 1312.0 2020 Precise 9 Australia 1079.9 2020 Precise 10 Qatar 1011.0 2010 Precise I can understand Singapore needing to protect itself against aggressive neighbours and all the Middle Eastern countries (including Israel). But Australia, who are they planning to fight? Timor? Papua?

SiempreViernes 5y ago
Australia plans to fight China.
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  Australia plans to defend itself in case one of the Chinas attacks. The one that's neither people's nor a republic, despite calling itself so.
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > Australia plans to defend itself in case one of the Chinas attacks. I'm not sure I find that very plausible. Especially when I find out about stuff like this where Australia has been extracting resources from its smaller powerless neighbors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_s... The Australia–East Timor spying scandal began in 2004 when the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) clandestinely planted covert listening devices in a room adjacent to the East Timor (Timor-Leste) Prime Minister's Office at Dili, to obtain information in order to ensure Australia held the upper hand in negotiations with East Timor over the rich oil and gas fields in the Timor Gap.[1] Even though the East Timor government was unaware of the espionage operation undertaken by Australia, negotiations were hostile. The first Prime Minister of East Timor, Mari Alkatiri, bluntly accused the Howard Government of plundering the oil and gas in the Timor Sea, stating: "Timor-Leste loses $1 million a day due to Australia's unlawful exploitation of resources in the disputed area. Timor-Leste cannot be deprived of its rights or territory because of a crime."[2] https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/989546260/i-remember-them-screaming-afghans-detail-alleged-killings-by-australian-military https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/989546260/i-remember-them-scr... 'I Remember Them Screaming': Afghans Detail Alleged Killings By Australian Military

kraussvonespy 5y ago

So rough math shows that the US spends more on military than the next 10 countries put together. Or put another way, spends 40% of all world military spending. While I get that military R&D occasionally produces tangible benefits to society, I suspect that if we poured 5% of the military budget into the state department and actually tried diplomacy more often, the rest of the military budget could get cut at least in half. Because of the level of corruption and the amount of money to be made by military contractor grifters, this isn't going to change. Better to build better ways to kill people than to solve things like poverty, mass mental illness and so on. 'merica fuck yeah and all that.

missedthecue 5y ago
Interesting. Can you describe a scenario where western diplomacy would have prevented the current situation in Ukraine? We can assume that the State Department's budget was any number you like in our example.
sremani 5y ago
Linear thinking .. like let us spend the money from military to diplomatic and civilian aid, sounds great, until you see and understand how the fiefdoms of State department and USAID are built and operated. We have State department and CIA full of people who cannot speak a second language, let alone the native language of country where they are stationed. End up living in a bubble that feels like a Western enclave -- too far from realities of the people of those countries. I would rather have corrupt hard power instead of feel good fake soft power.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  Same colonial empire building, new branding
systemvoltage 5y ago
US offers defense guarantees, weapons and munitions to many nations in exchange for soft power. Approx $120B/year in sales alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_pact