4 ms·

Archival. CD-ROMs last a long time, unlike magnetic media, SSDs, and CD-Rs. If I buy a CD-ROM, I know it’s going to outlive me. I often listen to artists who d

Archival. CD-ROMs last a long time, unlike magnetic media, SSDs, and CD-Rs. If I buy a CD-ROM, I know it’s going to outlive me. I often listen to artists who disappear—along with their libraries. Some produce actual CD-ROMs before disappearing, though that seems like a poor investment for an indie band. I carefully back up my music, but nothing I can make is as durable as a CD-ROM. Cloud backups are great, and I have plenty of local copies, but that CD-ROM beats them all as long as my house doesn’t burn down. It’s not going anywhere.

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
> I carefully back up my music, but nothing I can make is as durable as a CD-ROM. You might consider M-Discs, which are optical discs as large as 100 GB (BDXL) that you can burn yourself, and which should have the same longevity as a CD-ROM. Of course, if CDs are working for you, this may not be a problem that needs to be solved. ;)
- zenexer 4y ago
  I’ve considered it, but part of what’s nice about CD-ROMs is the convenience. I can click a button and have a fantastic archive in my mailbox the next day. For other people, it’s a method that doesn’t require any technical knowledge. Want to archive your music forever? Don’t want to learn how to properly back up digital data? Buy a CD-ROM.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > You might consider M-Discs, which are optical discs as large as 100 GB (BDXL) that you can burn yourself, and which should have the same longevity as a CD-ROM. It's not clear to me that there's anything special about the BDR M-Discs vs. other BDR discs. It looked like original DVD M-Discs have been discontinued, last time I checked. IIRC, those where the things that all the articles about M-Disc longevity were written about.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    I haven't seen any studies on the BluRays, but I've seen several blog posts that I found pretty convincing. This is the only one I could find in three minutes of googling, but I'm really quite sure I've seen others: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep16/mol-mdisc-review.html http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www... (In particular, I think there was an article on HN a few weeks ago that did tests with both M-Disc BluRays and another brand. The M-Disc wasn't magic but it was a decisive winner.)
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > I haven't seen any studies on the BluRays, but I've seen several blog posts that I found pretty convincing. This is the only one I could find in three minutes of googling, but I'm really quite sure I've seen others: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep16/mol-mdisc-review.html http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www... That's interesting. However I still have a couple questions: 1. My understanding there are significant brand-to-brand quality differences with optical disks. A better comparison might be Verbatim regular BDR vs. Verbatim M-DISC BDR than TDK regular BDR vs. M-DISC. 2. That article is from 2016, and I wonder if it holds up. From what I've read about optical disks, even were the disc was manufactured can be significant within the same brand. IIRC, back then they might have been making them in Japan, and I don't think they do that anymore.
Beltalowda 4y ago
CDs are subject to rot though; the rate differs a bit based on the type and probably also brand and such, but in general I wouldn't expect them to live more than a few decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot
eadmund 4y ago
> If I buy a CD-ROM, I know it’s going to outlive me. Not necessarily true: they do degrade over time. DVDs are even worse, so I imagine (without evidence) that Blu-Ray discs are even more sensitive. Really, you want to move your physical media to lossless digital as soon as you get it, and store it in a format that is both backed up and resilient to bit flips.
- zenexer 4y ago
  CD-ROMs typically don’t degrade. CD-Rs and such do. CD-ROMs have physical pits etched into the plastic, as do mass-produced DVDs and BDs. These advantages don’t apply to discs you produce yourself, however. It can happen, but it’s rare—not so rare that I forgo backups, but rare enough that I continue to maintain an archive of actual CD-ROMs.

Wowfunhappy 4y ago

> I carefully back up my music, but nothing I can make is as durable as a CD-ROM. You might consider M-Discs, which are optical discs as large as 100 GB (BDXL) that you can burn yourself, and which should have the same longevity as a CD-ROM. Of course, if CDs are working for you, this may not be a problem that needs to be solved. ;)

zenexer 4y ago
I’ve considered it, but part of what’s nice about CD-ROMs is the convenience. I can click a button and have a fantastic archive in my mailbox the next day. For other people, it’s a method that doesn’t require any technical knowledge. Want to archive your music forever? Don’t want to learn how to properly back up digital data? Buy a CD-ROM.
tablespoon 4y ago
> You might consider M-Discs, which are optical discs as large as 100 GB (BDXL) that you can burn yourself, and which should have the same longevity as a CD-ROM. It's not clear to me that there's anything special about the BDR M-Discs vs. other BDR discs. It looked like original DVD M-Discs have been discontinued, last time I checked. IIRC, those where the things that all the articles about M-Disc longevity were written about.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I haven't seen any studies on the BluRays, but I've seen several blog posts that I found pretty convincing. This is the only one I could find in three minutes of googling, but I'm really quite sure I've seen others: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep16/mol-mdisc-review.html http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www... (In particular, I think there was an article on HN a few weeks ago that did tests with both M-Disc BluRays and another brand. The M-Disc wasn't magic but it was a decisive winner.)
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > I haven't seen any studies on the BluRays, but I've seen several blog posts that I found pretty convincing. This is the only one I could find in three minutes of googling, but I'm really quite sure I've seen others: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep16/mol-mdisc-review.html http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www... That's interesting. However I still have a couple questions: 1. My understanding there are significant brand-to-brand quality differences with optical disks. A better comparison might be Verbatim regular BDR vs. Verbatim M-DISC BDR than TDK regular BDR vs. M-DISC. 2. That article is from 2016, and I wonder if it holds up. From what I've read about optical disks, even were the disc was manufactured can be significant within the same brand. IIRC, back then they might have been making them in Japan, and I don't think they do that anymore.

Beltalowda 4y ago

CDs are subject to rot though; the rate differs a bit based on the type and probably also brand and such, but in general I wouldn't expect them to live more than a few decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

eadmund 4y ago

> If I buy a CD-ROM, I know it’s going to outlive me. Not necessarily true: they do degrade over time. DVDs are even worse, so I imagine (without evidence) that Blu-Ray discs are even more sensitive. Really, you want to move your physical media to lossless digital as soon as you get it, and store it in a format that is both backed up and resilient to bit flips.

zenexer 4y ago
CD-ROMs typically don’t degrade. CD-Rs and such do. CD-ROMs have physical pits etched into the plastic, as do mass-produced DVDs and BDs. These advantages don’t apply to discs you produce yourself, however. It can happen, but it’s rare—not so rare that I forgo backups, but rare enough that I continue to maintain an archive of actual CD-ROMs.