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> This too is a fact. What is a fact? > Those minorities are less competent. "Those minorities"? You mean the individuals involved in the interaction? I didn

> This too is a fact. What is a fact? > Those minorities are less competent. "Those minorities"? You mean the individuals involved in the interaction? I didn't see where the study establishes that those people are less competent. Or do you mean the individuals are being stereotyped based on an assumed racial statistic? > Liberals recognize that fact and propose how to fix it. Conservatives say it is genetics and ignore the problem, making it worse. Well that's not what this study demonstrates. And which conservatives do you believe say this anyway? The ones in this study? The average conservative? Or the imaginary boogyman that your math textbook warned you about? > Which of these is racist? Assuming a black individual one is conversing with is less competent due to their skin color and treating them differently because of that, is racist. Making no assumptions about an individual's competence based on their skin color and treating them as you would any other individual is not racist. At least that's my definition of the word and the one I was taught.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
> What is a fact? I stated the fact in the very next sentence, which you quoted. > I didn't see where the study establishes that those people are less competent. That was not the point of the study. Other studies have established this fact. > Well that's not what this study demonstrates. I didn't claim it did. You seem to have a serious reading comprehension problem. > And which conservatives do you believe say this anyway? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report... https://archive.ph/uXMIg https://archive.ph/uXMIg https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu... > Assuming a black individual one is conversing with is less competent due to their skin color and treating them differently because of that, is racist The study didn't show that the liberal whites assumed these groups were less competent and treated them that way but that liberal whites assumed that the audience was less interested in competence-related terms for voting and changed how they campaigned to them, probably around how they would fix the problems unique to these groups, which the conservative politicians ignored. To be clear, what is racist is assuming the problems that these groups face is due to genetic mental inferiority, which is what conservatives assume, as the study I linked above shows.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  > I stated the fact in the very next sentence, which you quoted. I asked a question. "Those minorities" is not specific. If you are claiming it is the people in the study then you are wrong, no such fact was established. > That was not the point of the study. Other studies have established this fact. This study just says that white liberals acknowledge this when speaking to these groups. They are not "speaking to a group" or an amorphous blob. They are speaking to individuals in this study. Humans. > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report... > https://archive.ph/uXMIg https://archive.ph/uXMIg > https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu... So some people. That does not support any such claim that "conservatives are more racist" unless you establish that's a general view among conservatives. You can say those people with that view are more racist if that's a racist opinion. > They are on the whole less competent. Pretending that they aren't is ignoring the facts. This can be fixed. This is also a fact. Treating people the same regardless of skin color is not ignoring the fact there are statistical differences among different "socioeconomic" groups is not ignoring those differences. I'm astounded you're actually trying to claim that is being racist, but then again I'm allegedly a racist old curmudgeon for being against institutional discrimination against asian college applicants so I really should stop being so surprised at today's liberal dogma and just agree to disagree with you.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    > If you are claiming it is the people in the study then you are wrong, no such fact was established. It's established all over the place. Look at SAT scores, IQ tests, grades, etc. I never claimed that the stidy you linked to established it. > So some people. That does not support any such claim that "conservatives are more racist" unless you establish that's a general view among conservatives. Which is exactly what the first link you quoted showed, if you were able to read it. > Treating people the same regardless of skin color is not ignoring the fact there are statistical differences among different "socioeconomic" groups is not ignoring those differences The way they were treated differently was by using less competence words to signal that they were a good politician to vote for, since these people are from communities without a highly competent reference. Instead, these white liberals probably talked about the unique problems these groups were facing, which conservatives ignore and blame on genetics. Talking about their problems is not racist, and is in fact why these groups vote for white liberals. Pretending their problems is due to genetics without being able to point to a gene is racist. > I'm allegedly a racist old curmudgeon for being against institutional discrimination against asian college applicants so I really should stop being so surprised at today's liberal dogma and just agree to disagree with you. Liberals are also against discrimination against Asians. They try to solve problems where discrimination against Asians hold Asians back, like working to get reparations for interned Japanese Americans. Liberals also recognize that a significant minority of Americans have been systematically discouraged from getting an education and that fixing that will have a far greater impact on economic progress than almost anything else we can do.

lern_too_spel 4y ago

> What is a fact? I stated the fact in the very next sentence, which you quoted. > I didn't see where the study establishes that those people are less competent. That was not the point of the study. Other studies have established this fact. > Well that's not what this study demonstrates. I didn't claim it did. You seem to have a serious reading comprehension problem. > And which conservatives do you believe say this anyway? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report... https://archive.ph/uXMIg https://archive.ph/uXMIg https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu... > Assuming a black individual one is conversing with is less competent due to their skin color and treating them differently because of that, is racist The study didn't show that the liberal whites assumed these groups were less competent and treated them that way but that liberal whites assumed that the audience was less interested in competence-related terms for voting and changed how they campaigned to them, probably around how they would fix the problems unique to these groups, which the conservative politicians ignored. To be clear, what is racist is assuming the problems that these groups face is due to genetic mental inferiority, which is what conservatives assume, as the study I linked above shows.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
> I stated the fact in the very next sentence, which you quoted. I asked a question. "Those minorities" is not specific. If you are claiming it is the people in the study then you are wrong, no such fact was established. > That was not the point of the study. Other studies have established this fact. This study just says that white liberals acknowledge this when speaking to these groups. They are not "speaking to a group" or an amorphous blob. They are speaking to individuals in this study. Humans. > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567596/?report... > https://archive.ph/uXMIg https://archive.ph/uXMIg > https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu... So some people. That does not support any such claim that "conservatives are more racist" unless you establish that's a general view among conservatives. You can say those people with that view are more racist if that's a racist opinion. > They are on the whole less competent. Pretending that they aren't is ignoring the facts. This can be fixed. This is also a fact. Treating people the same regardless of skin color is not ignoring the fact there are statistical differences among different "socioeconomic" groups is not ignoring those differences. I'm astounded you're actually trying to claim that is being racist, but then again I'm allegedly a racist old curmudgeon for being against institutional discrimination against asian college applicants so I really should stop being so surprised at today's liberal dogma and just agree to disagree with you.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  > If you are claiming it is the people in the study then you are wrong, no such fact was established. It's established all over the place. Look at SAT scores, IQ tests, grades, etc. I never claimed that the stidy you linked to established it. > So some people. That does not support any such claim that "conservatives are more racist" unless you establish that's a general view among conservatives. Which is exactly what the first link you quoted showed, if you were able to read it. > Treating people the same regardless of skin color is not ignoring the fact there are statistical differences among different "socioeconomic" groups is not ignoring those differences The way they were treated differently was by using less competence words to signal that they were a good politician to vote for, since these people are from communities without a highly competent reference. Instead, these white liberals probably talked about the unique problems these groups were facing, which conservatives ignore and blame on genetics. Talking about their problems is not racist, and is in fact why these groups vote for white liberals. Pretending their problems is due to genetics without being able to point to a gene is racist. > I'm allegedly a racist old curmudgeon for being against institutional discrimination against asian college applicants so I really should stop being so surprised at today's liberal dogma and just agree to disagree with you. Liberals are also against discrimination against Asians. They try to solve problems where discrimination against Asians hold Asians back, like working to get reparations for interned Japanese Americans. Liberals also recognize that a significant minority of Americans have been systematically discouraged from getting an education and that fixing that will have a far greater impact on economic progress than almost anything else we can do.