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Thank you for the reply! I really appreciate it. > I'd argue that it isn't business as usual because Gen Z is leveraging this once-in-a-few-decades opportunity
by immigrantheart 4y ago
Thank you for the reply! I really appreciate it.
> I'd argue that it isn't business as usual because Gen Z is leveraging this once-in-a-few-decades opportunity where employees have some power into "what can you do for me?" discussions with companies and it's working [1]. Gone are the days of "company loyalty," partially because without pensions there's no incentive to put anything on the line for company. At the end of the day, they're remembering the core reason why people work in the first place: To get paid. I don't produce video content for a company "for the team" or "because I love the culture," I do it because they pay me, and it just so happens I also respect the company and want to see it grow. But that second consideration will never - and should never - outweigh #1. Gen Z seems to be internalizing this lesson very well.
Ahh I see, that makes sense. Yes the environment today is once in a lifetime opportunity. I wonder though whether this kind of environment will stay. I.e as a software engineer, yes we can say more and more that it is all mostly money, not work culture or for the team. But for Gen-Z ers that work in low paying warehouse jobs, they won't be as fortunate.
> It's simple: they don't. That era ended decades ago in the US. As for your bit about bootstraps, Americans' belief in that took a nasty plunge during The Great Recession and has been under sharp scrutiny for the better part of a decade [2]. The rise of student loan debt is also a huge factor here, as more and more millennials are putting off the next stage of their lives, such as homeownership/marriage/kids/etc., to try and tackle their high five-figure and six-figure debt.
Yeah, I figured such. I guess this is the reality of today's world, not just in the US but also (and way worse) in other countries. However, I still believe that IT jobs (software engineering, IT related work) and to a lesser extent, a craft-based work like woodworking, plumbing, is still the ticket from poverty to at least middle class. The cost for this trade-based schools are lesser than college. In some sense, we still have a bit leftover of the pull yourself up from the bootstrap.
> Congratulations, I sincerely mean that. Many millennials didn't clue in to the opportunities in coding until it was too late. Now yes, you can always do coding bootcamps or teach yourself, but not everyone can easily switch over to a job like that, and frankly in the 2010's that's where a lot of the opportunity to "pull yourself up" lay. People who are working for pennies often barely have the energy to cook for themselves, let alone teach themselves how to code.
Indeed, I was lucky. I actually got to a programming bootcamp after rejections from 9 bootcamps lol. At that time, I had only $14k in bank and $12k went to bootcamp. That was around 6 - 7 years ago.
Yes not that many people can do coding. However, what do you think about my comment above about trade schools being a ticket for people from poverty to at least middle class.
> You're right, and that's exactly what Gen Z is asking/saying! They are going, "Wow you millennials got rocked and the same way is paved for us. Screw that." Though I do have a pretty huge caveat about "forcing people to spend money on art," but that's a whole other discussion. Suffice to say arts and humanities deserve the same investment we give STEM. It's not about forcing people to pay for it, it's about supporting them and creating opportunity for art and culture. I don't see why that isn't a worthwhile investment.
Yes, so I think Gen Z and the generations below should be educated financially and what are the implications of going to expensive colleges.
Japan is an interesting one in this regard. Arts and culture are highly regarding (besides STEM) as well. You can very well find people who go into some random candy shop and decides that "I want to be a candy master" and actually make a living. Japanese values their own thing, created by their own people over generally imported stuffs from other countries (i.e, China).
What do you have in mind in regarding of supporting/creating opportunity for art and culture?
- Forgeties79 4y ago>But for Gen-Z ers that work in low paying warehouse jobs, they won't be as fortunate. Very good example. I have multiple friends in "warehouse jobs" and they hate it. It breaks down their bodies, the breaks are inadequate, the pay is JUST barely enough to keep them from quitting on the spot, etc. They have no energy for anything beyond work. They go home, try to recover, and wake up the next day to do it all again. God forbid they get a night shift. >a craft-based work like woodworking, plumbing, is still the ticket from poverty to at least middle class. Carpentry is a solid profession but you need to be good. Very good. It's a lot of work getting the referrals to keep a steady income stream. I have a couple of buddies who do it and it's really feast or famine unless you link up with a general contractor who can give you a ton of work. As for plumbing, it's an apprenticeship situation usually, so breaking in can be hard. The more plumbers there are, the less work there is for plumbers, so some are not too keen to set you up. This varies wildly of course, but you can't just set up shop as a plumber anywhere you want with ease. It can be a tricky road. You're right though, good opportunities there. If you've got the mind to learn it that is. Those aren't exactly easy jobs! The arts and culture argument is tricky and multi-faceted but I'll try to keep this as concise as I can. Know that this won't have as many citations and is largely opinion-based. That seems appropriate to me though when discussing something as difficult to quantify as "the value of art." I think an example will be the best way to describe this. In the 1960's and 1970's, there was a lot more investment at the federal level in the arts. While there were different grants out there at different levels, the most noteworthy then - and largely today - is probably the NEH: The National Endowment for the Humanities. If you have a cultural/arts project you think is worthwhile, you can apply for a piece of that pie. During that time these film programs opened up all over the US built on a similar model: Teach kids how to shoot, edit, and generally work with 16mm film. The focus was providing an opportunity in impoverished communities, though it certainly wasn't restricted to that. Apalshop is one of the most famous examples (in Appalachia, which is one of the biggest examples of poverty in the US), and what's so cool is it is still running to this day [1]. These programs sprung up everywhere and produced a staggering amount of documentaries and other 16mm film projects that have contributed richly to American culture, while also paving the way for a whole generation of filmmakers and creating opportunities where there seemingly was none for many. Sadly, the NEH has been systematically defunded over the decades, especially under Ronald Reagan (surprise surprise), and most of these programs shuttered in the early 90's. My home city of New Orleans has one of the only remaining ones from that original era actually, called NOVAC. But that's another story haha. Anyway this example is sort of designed to hit a lot of points for me. It wasn't just about "hey let's art because art and uhhh yeah that's good right?" This program 1) contributed to American culture, 2) provided opportunities to people who had few, 3) created tons of jobs, and 4) just overall integrated well with their communities. The relative investment compared to, say, yet another tank or fighter jet, was very minimal and created concrete outcomes for communities and enriched the American people. I think the need for tax dollars to go towards those projects is self-evident, though obviously not everyone agrees with that. Hopefully that makes sense lol [1] https://appalshop.org/story https://appalshop.org/story