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Indeed. It's bizarre to see him argue that Twitter censors news simply because it wants to avoid mobs, when the company has stood by and done nothing to stop ac

Indeed. It's bizarre to see him argue that Twitter censors news simply because it wants to avoid mobs, when the company has stood by and done nothing to stop actual Twitter mobs that have gotten innocent people fired for doing nothing (for a couple examples look at David Shor[1] or this random Chipotle manager[2]). And there are certain issues where Twitter has stated that you simply aren't allowed to take an opposing view or you'll be kicked off their platform. You might argue that their decision to take sides is a good thing, but I don't know how anyone can argue that it's nonexistent. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firin... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chipotle-rehires-manager-viral-video-incident-labeled-racist-n938141 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chipotle-rehires-manage...

astrange 4y ago
David Shor wasn't fired by a Twitter mob - wouldn't his manager have to be on Twitter for that? He was fired via backchannel complaints or a very emotionally sensitive email list.
- throwaway042122 4y ago
  I think you're confusing two different things. Here's a New York Magazine article that goes over what happened[1]. After Shor tweeted this: > Post-MLK-assasination race riots reduced Democratic vote share in surrounding counties by 2%, which was enough to tip the 1968 election to Nixon. Non-violent protests increase Dem vote, mainly by encouraging warm elite discourse and media coverage. A twitter mob went after Shor, including people tagging the CEO of his company (who _is_ on Twitter, not sure what the confusion is there) and asking them to "Come get your boy." A few days later, he was fired. Four days after that[2], he was kicked off the Progressphiles list for being "racist." If you don't like New York Magazine, here's a Vox article that goes over what happened[3]. [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/case-for-liberalism-tom-cotton-new-york-times-james-bennet.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/case-for-liberalism-... [2] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/white-fragility-racism-racism-progressive-progressphiles-david-shor.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/white-fragility-raci... [3] https://www.vox.com/2020/7/29/21340308/david-shor-omar-wasow-speech https://www.vox.com/2020/7/29/21340308/david-shor-omar-wasow...
  - astrange 4y ago
    Huh, I thought the email list stuff happened before he was fired. Guess not. The culture didn't last long - people usually fight back at the mobs now, who have died off some. Now it only exists in minor extremist form where leftists (anti-Epstein conspiracists) and rightists (many other kinds of conspiracists) go around calling random people pedophiles. Twitter still doesn't ban them if you report them though. Also, that research he quoted is from a Black researcher (Omar Wasow) who is still around tweeting himself and seems well respected.
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      Do you think Wasow would have picked that moment to promote his research?
      - rayiner 4y ago
        That’s exactly when the research needed to be promoted, for the good of everyone, including advocates of policing reform. Failure to heed that advice allowed republicans to paint democrats—by doing nothing more than reposting articles from NPR and the like—as feckless enablers of their radical wing who would cower in the sidelines for months while rioters tore down city blocks. And in the end nobody suffered as much as the folks living in these high crime neighborhoods. Not only is there evidence the riots increased homicides, https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-protests-and-rising-violent-crime https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-pr..., but also it created a backlash against police reform even in the most progressive cities in the country, like NYC and SF. Police budgets are now bigger than ever: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/cities-vowed-2020-cut-police-funding-budgets-expanded-2021-rcna9864 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/cities-vowed-2020-cut-po... Bi-partisan momentum on police reform evaporated as Trump baited progressives into picking a self-destructive fight over the acceptability of rioting and the need for policing.
      - astrange 4y ago
        With no other attention? Don't know. In our timeline he did, since I remember reading some followups he wrote about it. It's not the real most annoying research you could post; that'd be the NBER paper finding protests reduced covid cases by getting uninvolved people to stay home.
etherael 4y ago
It's not that bizarre. It's called lying.
agentdrtran 4y ago
"And there are certain issues where Twitter has stated that you simply aren't allowed to take an opposing view or you'll be kicked off their platform." such as?
- philosopher1234 4y ago
  It’ll be something about race
  - cr__ 4y ago
    What do you mean?
- tdfx 4y ago
  There was a time when you weren't allowed to say that the SARS-COV-2 might've leaked from a laboratory in Wuhan. That's the most prominent, indefensible example of moderation gone awry and proof that the censorship model can be successfully abused by bad actors to suppress potentially valid opposing views. Imagine how many other issues have been suppressed but haven't reached the level of visibility that issue did.
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    You still can’t, apparently.
    - panarky 4y ago
      Citation needed.
  - cr__ 4y ago
    You were absolutely allowed to say that, you just weren’t allowed to assert that it was definitely leaked from the lab. You’ve fallen for the false grievances pushed by blatant con men like Alex Berenson.
    - 4y ago
trompetenaccoun 4y ago
There are literal mob calls to get people killed, like that Pakistani woman who was accused of "blasphemy" against Islam a few weeks back. I think twitter would have done something about all those users tweeting she should be hanged if she were American and had the right sort of identity but like this they don't even care.
roguecoder 4y ago
The paradox of tolerance is that if you let people promote an "opposing view" to some people's right to exist as equal citizens, you drive the people they are attacking off your platform, no one wants to advertise on you & you become 4chan.

astrange 4y ago

David Shor wasn't fired by a Twitter mob - wouldn't his manager have to be on Twitter for that? He was fired via backchannel complaints or a very emotionally sensitive email list.

throwaway042122 4y ago
I think you're confusing two different things. Here's a New York Magazine article that goes over what happened[1]. After Shor tweeted this: > Post-MLK-assasination race riots reduced Democratic vote share in surrounding counties by 2%, which was enough to tip the 1968 election to Nixon. Non-violent protests increase Dem vote, mainly by encouraging warm elite discourse and media coverage. A twitter mob went after Shor, including people tagging the CEO of his company (who _is_ on Twitter, not sure what the confusion is there) and asking them to "Come get your boy." A few days later, he was fired. Four days after that[2], he was kicked off the Progressphiles list for being "racist." If you don't like New York Magazine, here's a Vox article that goes over what happened[3]. [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/case-for-liberalism-tom-cotton-new-york-times-james-bennet.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/case-for-liberalism-... [2] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/white-fragility-racism-racism-progressive-progressphiles-david-shor.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/white-fragility-raci... [3] https://www.vox.com/2020/7/29/21340308/david-shor-omar-wasow-speech https://www.vox.com/2020/7/29/21340308/david-shor-omar-wasow...
- astrange 4y ago
  Huh, I thought the email list stuff happened before he was fired. Guess not. The culture didn't last long - people usually fight back at the mobs now, who have died off some. Now it only exists in minor extremist form where leftists (anti-Epstein conspiracists) and rightists (many other kinds of conspiracists) go around calling random people pedophiles. Twitter still doesn't ban them if you report them though. Also, that research he quoted is from a Black researcher (Omar Wasow) who is still around tweeting himself and seems well respected.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Do you think Wasow would have picked that moment to promote his research?
    - rayiner 4y ago
      That’s exactly when the research needed to be promoted, for the good of everyone, including advocates of policing reform. Failure to heed that advice allowed republicans to paint democrats—by doing nothing more than reposting articles from NPR and the like—as feckless enablers of their radical wing who would cower in the sidelines for months while rioters tore down city blocks. And in the end nobody suffered as much as the folks living in these high crime neighborhoods. Not only is there evidence the riots increased homicides, https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-protests-and-rising-violent-crime https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-pr..., but also it created a backlash against police reform even in the most progressive cities in the country, like NYC and SF. Police budgets are now bigger than ever: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/cities-vowed-2020-cut-police-funding-budgets-expanded-2021-rcna9864 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/cities-vowed-2020-cut-po... Bi-partisan momentum on police reform evaporated as Trump baited progressives into picking a self-destructive fight over the acceptability of rioting and the need for policing.
    - astrange 4y ago
      With no other attention? Don't know. In our timeline he did, since I remember reading some followups he wrote about it. It's not the real most annoying research you could post; that'd be the NBER paper finding protests reduced covid cases by getting uninvolved people to stay home.

etherael 4y ago

It's not that bizarre. It's called lying.

agentdrtran 4y ago

"And there are certain issues where Twitter has stated that you simply aren't allowed to take an opposing view or you'll be kicked off their platform." such as?

philosopher1234 4y ago
It’ll be something about race
- cr__ 4y ago
  What do you mean?
tdfx 4y ago
There was a time when you weren't allowed to say that the SARS-COV-2 might've leaked from a laboratory in Wuhan. That's the most prominent, indefensible example of moderation gone awry and proof that the censorship model can be successfully abused by bad actors to suppress potentially valid opposing views. Imagine how many other issues have been suppressed but haven't reached the level of visibility that issue did.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  You still can’t, apparently.
  - panarky 4y ago
    Citation needed.
- cr__ 4y ago
  You were absolutely allowed to say that, you just weren’t allowed to assert that it was definitely leaked from the lab. You’ve fallen for the false grievances pushed by blatant con men like Alex Berenson.
  - 4y ago

trompetenaccoun 4y ago

There are literal mob calls to get people killed, like that Pakistani woman who was accused of "blasphemy" against Islam a few weeks back. I think twitter would have done something about all those users tweeting she should be hanged if she were American and had the right sort of identity but like this they don't even care.

roguecoder 4y ago

The paradox of tolerance is that if you let people promote an "opposing view" to some people's right to exist as equal citizens, you drive the people they are attacking off your platform, no one wants to advertise on you & you become 4chan.