12 ms·

It's telling that no one is worried about being censored by Elon. They're worried about Elon not censoring others.

by memish 4y ago

rxhernandez 4y ago
Many people are very worried about Elon censoring others. He has already done that before.
- buzzert 4y ago
  Example?
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Bloomberg wrote Elon asked the CCP to censor posts about Tesla in China at some point. In the US, Elon is vehemently against activist short sellers. Elon strikes me as an insecure man and opportunistic free speech champion. I don't think accounts like TESLAcharts would survive on the new Twitter. Stonks are supposed to go up, so your speech is definitely free to help that. Once people like that get rid of inconvenient to them speech limitations, they inevitably end up with new ones, overt or hidden. There is never unconditional free speech in any society.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Would be interested in the CCP article
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-05/tesla-s-fall-from-grace-in-china-shows-perils-of-betting-on-beijing https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-05/tesla-s-f... for an offhand mention at the end.
  - badwolf 4y ago
    "In an unmoderated online forum, all speakers do not play by the same rules or have the same tools. University of Maryland professor David Kirsch has found that automated pro-Tesla Twitter accounts are responsible for 20% of the tweets about Tesla, and that the launching of these bots correlates with increases in the company’s stock price. It’s not just bots. Say something negative about Elon online, and I’ll vouch for this, the Tesla Taliban comes for you. Anyone who tells you this is "free speech" doesn’t want freedom, they want power via elimination of competitive speech." https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-04-12/musk-is-off-the-twitter-board-of-directors-the-tesla-twitter-bot-army-marches-on https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-04-12/musk-is-of...
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Quite ironic, considering "I mean, frankly a top priority I would have is eliminating the spam and scam bots and the bot armies that are on Twitter," he said. "I think these influence … They make the product much worse. If I had a dogecoin for every crypto scam I saw, I would have a hundred billion dogecoin." https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/technology/twitter-deal-bots https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/technology/twitter-deal-bots In fact, I think Twitter announced new measures of linking bots to bot operators back in Feb, so I have no idea why this bothers Elon so much (unless being identified as the owner of the entire Tesla bot horde is exactly what he is worrying about).
- typeofhuman 4y ago
  Who has he censored? Please back up your claims with evidence. This isn't Twitter.
  - avs733 4y ago
    There are nicely cataloged lists elsewhere in this thread for you to no true Scotsman I for one, if you made me pick an example, would point to his treatment of Vernon Unsworth.
    - typeofhuman 4y ago
      He insulted Vernon, but did not censor him. So what is your evidence that Elon Musk censors people?
      - avs733 4y ago
        he tried to 'cancel' him by calling him a pedophile. There are varying definitions of 'censorship' floated in this thread. A lot of people in this thread who are defenders of Musk are willing to apply the label censorship to 'canceling people'...or at least when certain people get push back. If we take their definition at the word, if we take it as honest, then it is reasonable to apply to his own actions. vis a vis, by the definition of censorship floated in support of Musks purchase, he censored Vernon. Do I buy that definition? no...but...I don't think 'cancelling' is censorship, I think its just another form of free speech thats given a hostile label to bound free speech in a hierarchical way. Otherwise, and its worth noting this actually highlights the subtext of the overall conversation, there are two definitions of censorship being applied by some people - a broader one to speech they like, and a narrower one to speech they don't.
anonporridge 4y ago
If you control the algorithm, you don't necessarily need to censor explicitly.
gkoberger 4y ago
He's cancelled car orders of journalists: https://medium.com/@salsop/banned-by-tesla-8d1f3249b9fb https://medium.com/@salsop/banned-by-tesla-8d1f3249b9fb He's tried to get a teen to take down a Twitter account that follows his private jet: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-jet-tracking-teen-says-musk-blocked-him-twitter-2022-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-jet-tracking-teen-... He's fired anyone who disagrees with him: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-ruthlessly-fired-anyone-who-disagreed-spacex-report-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-ruthlessly-f... He's fired employees for YouTube videos: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employee-self-driving-youtube-reviewer-fired-fsd-collision-video-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employee-self-driving-... He's fired people for walking too close: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-reportedly-terrified-tesla-staff-with-his-firing-sprees-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-reportedly-terrifi... He refused to pay severance to the Tesla founder unless he took down a blog post: https://www.wired.com/2009/06/eberhard/ https://www.wired.com/2009/06/eberhard/ He blocks people on Twitter: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1279326187559374849?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1279326187559374849?lang... Sure, he's never censored people the same way he could on Twitter, but he's also never had the chance.
- reapwhatyousow 4y ago
  But the first amendment is just about the federal government not censoring people. Twitter is a private platform, that now belongs to Elon Musk. If you don't like it, build your own.
  - strulovich 4y ago
    Free speech is not just the first amendment. It’s a moral value that exists by itself.
    - skeptikal 4y ago
      OP was ironic restating verbatim what “conservatives” have been told over the last four-five years when they got ostracized for disagreeing with “liberals”. “Build your own Twitter!” “Build your own ISP!” “Build your own DNS” “Build your own copper lines!” And now Chomsky has gone as far as to say that people who disagree with him (vis a vis vaccines) should be put in a desert and build their own societies. When asked if those people wouldn't die of starvation he shrugged it off.
alephnan 4y ago
This is the same crowd who is criticizing China’s censorship of media surrounding Shanghai lockdowns, and being self congratulatory of America / “ “democracy’s” success of coronavirus.
- Kye 4y ago
  What crowd is "this"? Both you and the person you responded to are being uselessly vague.
stouset 4y ago
Uh, yeah? Why do you think Hacker News exists as a space to have reasonable, we’ll-intentioned discussion? I’ll answer for you: moderation. Without moderation, all anonymous public discussion forums devolve into cesspools. By and large, reasonable people don’t want to participate in these places. Twitter certainly isn’t the best place for meaningful discourse right now, but without moderation it can certainly be a hell of a lot worse.
- top_sigrid 4y ago
  This so much.
- dingoegret12 4y ago
  This place like all reddit clones is an echo chamber. I have to carefully manage my unpopular opinions lest I sink into shadow ban territory. Which has happened before and I had to request an unban from a mod. In fact, by writing this reasonable and calm opinion (even if you disagree with the opinion), I expect many many downvotes.
  - stouset 4y ago
    Which unpopular opinions do you believe you were shadowbanned for?
    - dingoegret12 4y ago
      I want to make clear that I don't believe I was banned by a mod. I received enough downvotes that I was shadow banned by the automated system.
guerrilla 4y ago
I wouldn't say that. I'm worried about that and I see a lot of other people who are. He does have a tendency of being petty like cancelling people's Tesla's orders as such.
Spivak 4y ago
Where do you fall on the difference between “censoring ideas” and “banning hate” because that’s honestly what I’m most afraid of. Because one, Twitter right now is already difficult site to be on if you’re queer and not using a chain-block extension to deal with bullies, edgelords, and bridagers, and opening the floodgates isn’t exactly going to help. And two because people spewing hate have already learned to avoid most moderation by dressing them up as “ideas/alternative views” Some real takes I’ve gotten in my replies unsolicited. * “I don’t hate gay people I just think they’re existence is a sin, they’re pedophile groomers, and they shouldn’t be allowed to be married.” * “I don’t hate trans people, I just think that trans men are just confused self hating women, that trans women are rapists, and that they shouldn’t be allowed to have any representation in media because they will brainwash kids into ‘gender ideology’ (whatever that is).” I both don’t really feel like dealing with this on a day to day basis and I’m really afraid that the literal decades of progress is going to be undone by giving a huge megaphone to these people whose hate manifests in real life harm.

It's telling that no one is worried about being censored by Elon. They're worried about Elon not censoring others.

by memish 4y ago

It's telling that no one is worried about being censored by Elon. They're worried about Elon not censoring others.

rxhernandez 4y ago

Many people are very worried about Elon censoring others. He has already done that before.

buzzert 4y ago
Example?
throwaway290 4y ago
Bloomberg wrote Elon asked the CCP to censor posts about Tesla in China at some point. In the US, Elon is vehemently against activist short sellers. Elon strikes me as an insecure man and opportunistic free speech champion. I don't think accounts like TESLAcharts would survive on the new Twitter. Stonks are supposed to go up, so your speech is definitely free to help that. Once people like that get rid of inconvenient to them speech limitations, they inevitably end up with new ones, overt or hidden. There is never unconditional free speech in any society.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Would be interested in the CCP article
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-05/tesla-s-fall-from-grace-in-china-shows-perils-of-betting-on-beijing https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-05/tesla-s-f... for an offhand mention at the end.
- badwolf 4y ago
  "In an unmoderated online forum, all speakers do not play by the same rules or have the same tools. University of Maryland professor David Kirsch has found that automated pro-Tesla Twitter accounts are responsible for 20% of the tweets about Tesla, and that the launching of these bots correlates with increases in the company’s stock price. It’s not just bots. Say something negative about Elon online, and I’ll vouch for this, the Tesla Taliban comes for you. Anyone who tells you this is "free speech" doesn’t want freedom, they want power via elimination of competitive speech." https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-04-12/musk-is-off-the-twitter-board-of-directors-the-tesla-twitter-bot-army-marches-on https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-04-12/musk-is-of...
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    Quite ironic, considering "I mean, frankly a top priority I would have is eliminating the spam and scam bots and the bot armies that are on Twitter," he said. "I think these influence … They make the product much worse. If I had a dogecoin for every crypto scam I saw, I would have a hundred billion dogecoin." https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/technology/twitter-deal-bots https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/technology/twitter-deal-bots In fact, I think Twitter announced new measures of linking bots to bot operators back in Feb, so I have no idea why this bothers Elon so much (unless being identified as the owner of the entire Tesla bot horde is exactly what he is worrying about).
typeofhuman 4y ago
Who has he censored? Please back up your claims with evidence. This isn't Twitter.
- avs733 4y ago
  There are nicely cataloged lists elsewhere in this thread for you to no true Scotsman I for one, if you made me pick an example, would point to his treatment of Vernon Unsworth.
  - typeofhuman 4y ago
    He insulted Vernon, but did not censor him. So what is your evidence that Elon Musk censors people?
    - avs733 4y ago
      he tried to 'cancel' him by calling him a pedophile. There are varying definitions of 'censorship' floated in this thread. A lot of people in this thread who are defenders of Musk are willing to apply the label censorship to 'canceling people'...or at least when certain people get push back. If we take their definition at the word, if we take it as honest, then it is reasonable to apply to his own actions. vis a vis, by the definition of censorship floated in support of Musks purchase, he censored Vernon. Do I buy that definition? no...but...I don't think 'cancelling' is censorship, I think its just another form of free speech thats given a hostile label to bound free speech in a hierarchical way. Otherwise, and its worth noting this actually highlights the subtext of the overall conversation, there are two definitions of censorship being applied by some people - a broader one to speech they like, and a narrower one to speech they don't.

anonporridge 4y ago

If you control the algorithm, you don't necessarily need to censor explicitly.

gkoberger 4y ago

He's cancelled car orders of journalists: https://medium.com/@salsop/banned-by-tesla-8d1f3249b9fb https://medium.com/@salsop/banned-by-tesla-8d1f3249b9fb He's tried to get a teen to take down a Twitter account that follows his private jet: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-jet-tracking-teen-says-musk-blocked-him-twitter-2022-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-jet-tracking-teen-... He's fired anyone who disagrees with him: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-ruthlessly-fired-anyone-who-disagreed-spacex-report-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-ruthlessly-f... He's fired employees for YouTube videos: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employee-self-driving-youtube-reviewer-fired-fsd-collision-video-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employee-self-driving-... He's fired people for walking too close: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-reportedly-terrified-tesla-staff-with-his-firing-sprees-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-reportedly-terrifi... He refused to pay severance to the Tesla founder unless he took down a blog post: https://www.wired.com/2009/06/eberhard/ https://www.wired.com/2009/06/eberhard/ He blocks people on Twitter: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1279326187559374849?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1279326187559374849?lang... Sure, he's never censored people the same way he could on Twitter, but he's also never had the chance.

reapwhatyousow 4y ago
But the first amendment is just about the federal government not censoring people. Twitter is a private platform, that now belongs to Elon Musk. If you don't like it, build your own.
- strulovich 4y ago
  Free speech is not just the first amendment. It’s a moral value that exists by itself.
  - skeptikal 4y ago
    OP was ironic restating verbatim what “conservatives” have been told over the last four-five years when they got ostracized for disagreeing with “liberals”. “Build your own Twitter!” “Build your own ISP!” “Build your own DNS” “Build your own copper lines!” And now Chomsky has gone as far as to say that people who disagree with him (vis a vis vaccines) should be put in a desert and build their own societies. When asked if those people wouldn't die of starvation he shrugged it off.

alephnan 4y ago

This is the same crowd who is criticizing China’s censorship of media surrounding Shanghai lockdowns, and being self congratulatory of America / “ “democracy’s” success of coronavirus.

Kye 4y ago
What crowd is "this"? Both you and the person you responded to are being uselessly vague.

stouset 4y ago

Uh, yeah? Why do you think Hacker News exists as a space to have reasonable, we’ll-intentioned discussion? I’ll answer for you: moderation. Without moderation, all anonymous public discussion forums devolve into cesspools. By and large, reasonable people don’t want to participate in these places. Twitter certainly isn’t the best place for meaningful discourse right now, but without moderation it can certainly be a hell of a lot worse.

top_sigrid 4y ago
This so much.
dingoegret12 4y ago
This place like all reddit clones is an echo chamber. I have to carefully manage my unpopular opinions lest I sink into shadow ban territory. Which has happened before and I had to request an unban from a mod. In fact, by writing this reasonable and calm opinion (even if you disagree with the opinion), I expect many many downvotes.
- stouset 4y ago
  Which unpopular opinions do you believe you were shadowbanned for?
  - dingoegret12 4y ago
    I want to make clear that I don't believe I was banned by a mod. I received enough downvotes that I was shadow banned by the automated system.

guerrilla 4y ago

I wouldn't say that. I'm worried about that and I see a lot of other people who are. He does have a tendency of being petty like cancelling people's Tesla's orders as such.

Spivak 4y ago

Where do you fall on the difference between “censoring ideas” and “banning hate” because that’s honestly what I’m most afraid of. Because one, Twitter right now is already difficult site to be on if you’re queer and not using a chain-block extension to deal with bullies, edgelords, and bridagers, and opening the floodgates isn’t exactly going to help. And two because people spewing hate have already learned to avoid most moderation by dressing them up as “ideas/alternative views” Some real takes I’ve gotten in my replies unsolicited. * “I don’t hate gay people I just think they’re existence is a sin, they’re pedophile groomers, and they shouldn’t be allowed to be married.” * “I don’t hate trans people, I just think that trans men are just confused self hating women, that trans women are rapists, and that they shouldn’t be allowed to have any representation in media because they will brainwash kids into ‘gender ideology’ (whatever that is).” I both don’t really feel like dealing with this on a day to day basis and I’m really afraid that the literal decades of progress is going to be undone by giving a huge megaphone to these people whose hate manifests in real life harm.