5 ms·

Both of my children have or had classmates in their second grade classrooms that are openly transgender. The idea that sexual or gender orientation is or should

Both of my children have or had classmates in their second grade classrooms that are openly transgender. The idea that sexual or gender orientation is or should be a taboo topic at that age is harmful to those children, and that kids that age are too young to talk about it is not, to my knowledge, backed by empirical evidence. Forcing schools to silence these kids' identities is hateful and reactionary.

twofornone 4y ago
>Both of my children have or had classmates in their second grade classrooms that are openly transgender. What does that even mean? That a boy prefers to play with dolls? How can a prepubescent second grade child be trans!?
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > How can a prepubescent second grade child be trans!? Do you mean “how can they have a gender identity”? or “how can it be different than their assigned gender at birth“? I’m trying to figure out what you don't understand here. Do cisgender identities in children that age surprise you?
- LargeWu 4y ago
  Let us try a thought experiment. Let’s suppose you have male genitals, and everybody called you a girl in your early elementary years. Would that have caused you to feel confused? angry? depressed? If so, why?
  - twofornone 4y ago
    What separates a cis child from a trans child? How could you reliably detect/diagnose such a condition? Timmy doesn't like having a boy's name? Timmy doesn't like playing with male toys or prefers wearing dresses to pants? Children throw tantrums over all sorts of trivial stuff, how could you possibly diagnose gender dysphoria off the fleeting whims of a preteen child? What's arguably more dangerous is having an authority figure dictate to an impressionable child that they're "trapped in the wrong body" and setting them up for a lifetime of confusion. I don't think proponents of LGBT in the classroom realize that gender dysphoria is socially infectious, particularly when it is advertised as a solution to the typical confusion and angst that teens feel as they transition into adulthood.
    - LargeWu 4y ago
      You didn’t answer my question, which suggests your argument is not in good faith. The authority figure angle is interesting, though, especially in the case of one of the children I mentioned who has a cisgendered twin of the same biological sex. Seems weird the parents would push it on one child and not the other… …or, it could just be as simple as you being wrong. Maybe even intentionally so. I don’t know. Regardless I’m not interested in responding to you any more after this because I don’t have time for bad faith actors.
      - twofornone 4y ago
        >You didn’t answer my question, which suggests your argument is not in good faith. Well isn't that ironic, considering you didn't answer mine in the GP. I'll tell you what is bad faith though, your shallow accusation as a substitute for an argument. What exactly are you implying with this accusation anyway? >Seems weird the parents would push it on one child and not the other It's not necessarily being "pushed" onto them, but excessive encouragement and failure to intervene - and I'm not implying that they've done anything out of selfish reasons (though transgenderism absolutely confers clout in certain circles these days).
        howinteresting 4y ago
        Failure to intervene in what? Any attempt to make a trans kid cis is conversion therapy. Gender identity is part of the core of personhood, and is (a) resistant to external pressure to change, and more importantly (b) ought not be changed.
        mike00632 4y ago
        To be clear, people don't come out as trans for clout. Trans people are still at a higher risk of suicide and being murdered thanks to people like you.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
thepasswordis 4y ago
The idea that second graders have "open" sexual identities should be absolutely horrifying, and is exactly why Florida is trying to pass it's bill to protect kids from this sort of thing.
- PierceJoy 4y ago
  > The idea that second graders have "open" sexual identities should be absolutely horrifying So you find it horrifying if a young male openly identifies as a boy, and a young female openly identifies as a girl?
  - TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
    Girl and Boy are not sexual identities and should not be misconstrued as such. Those terms in this context refer to prepubescent children. If a girl likes to dress in what is traditionally recognised as boys clothes and play with trucks, that just kids being kids, there's nothing transgendered to be found there.
    - PierceJoy 4y ago
      Transgender is also not a sexual identity, so then what exactly is the parent horrified about? If they misspoke and meant to say open gender identities, then my question still applies. > If a girl likes to dress in what is traditionally recognised as boys clothes and play with trucks, that just kids being kids, there's nothing transgendered to be found there. There is nothing *necessarily* transgendered about this. However, the grandparent stated there are openly transgendered kids in a second grade class. Are you saying it’s impossible for a child to know if they’re trans or not? I think we generally accept that some gay people knew they were gay at that age, why can’t the same be true for trans people?
      - LargeWu 4y ago
        For clarification, the children I mentioned changed their names, appearances, and pronouns to match their own gender identities. It’s not just “boys playing with dolls, girls playing with trucks”.

twofornone 4y ago

>Both of my children have or had classmates in their second grade classrooms that are openly transgender. What does that even mean? That a boy prefers to play with dolls? How can a prepubescent second grade child be trans!?

dragonwriter 4y ago
> How can a prepubescent second grade child be trans!? Do you mean “how can they have a gender identity”? or “how can it be different than their assigned gender at birth“? I’m trying to figure out what you don't understand here. Do cisgender identities in children that age surprise you?
LargeWu 4y ago
Let us try a thought experiment. Let’s suppose you have male genitals, and everybody called you a girl in your early elementary years. Would that have caused you to feel confused? angry? depressed? If so, why?
- twofornone 4y ago
  What separates a cis child from a trans child? How could you reliably detect/diagnose such a condition? Timmy doesn't like having a boy's name? Timmy doesn't like playing with male toys or prefers wearing dresses to pants? Children throw tantrums over all sorts of trivial stuff, how could you possibly diagnose gender dysphoria off the fleeting whims of a preteen child? What's arguably more dangerous is having an authority figure dictate to an impressionable child that they're "trapped in the wrong body" and setting them up for a lifetime of confusion. I don't think proponents of LGBT in the classroom realize that gender dysphoria is socially infectious, particularly when it is advertised as a solution to the typical confusion and angst that teens feel as they transition into adulthood.
  - LargeWu 4y ago
    You didn’t answer my question, which suggests your argument is not in good faith. The authority figure angle is interesting, though, especially in the case of one of the children I mentioned who has a cisgendered twin of the same biological sex. Seems weird the parents would push it on one child and not the other… …or, it could just be as simple as you being wrong. Maybe even intentionally so. I don’t know. Regardless I’m not interested in responding to you any more after this because I don’t have time for bad faith actors.
    - twofornone 4y ago
      >You didn’t answer my question, which suggests your argument is not in good faith. Well isn't that ironic, considering you didn't answer mine in the GP. I'll tell you what is bad faith though, your shallow accusation as a substitute for an argument. What exactly are you implying with this accusation anyway? >Seems weird the parents would push it on one child and not the other It's not necessarily being "pushed" onto them, but excessive encouragement and failure to intervene - and I'm not implying that they've done anything out of selfish reasons (though transgenderism absolutely confers clout in certain circles these days).
      - howinteresting 4y ago
        Failure to intervene in what? Any attempt to make a trans kid cis is conversion therapy. Gender identity is part of the core of personhood, and is (a) resistant to external pressure to change, and more importantly (b) ought not be changed.
      - mike00632 4y ago
        To be clear, people don't come out as trans for clout. Trans people are still at a higher risk of suicide and being murdered thanks to people like you.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

thepasswordis 4y ago

The idea that second graders have "open" sexual identities should be absolutely horrifying, and is exactly why Florida is trying to pass it's bill to protect kids from this sort of thing.

PierceJoy 4y ago
> The idea that second graders have "open" sexual identities should be absolutely horrifying So you find it horrifying if a young male openly identifies as a boy, and a young female openly identifies as a girl?
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
  Girl and Boy are not sexual identities and should not be misconstrued as such. Those terms in this context refer to prepubescent children. If a girl likes to dress in what is traditionally recognised as boys clothes and play with trucks, that just kids being kids, there's nothing transgendered to be found there.
  - PierceJoy 4y ago
    Transgender is also not a sexual identity, so then what exactly is the parent horrified about? If they misspoke and meant to say open gender identities, then my question still applies. > If a girl likes to dress in what is traditionally recognised as boys clothes and play with trucks, that just kids being kids, there's nothing transgendered to be found there. There is nothing *necessarily* transgendered about this. However, the grandparent stated there are openly transgendered kids in a second grade class. Are you saying it’s impossible for a child to know if they’re trans or not? I think we generally accept that some gay people knew they were gay at that age, why can’t the same be true for trans people?
    - LargeWu 4y ago
      For clarification, the children I mentioned changed their names, appearances, and pronouns to match their own gender identities. It’s not just “boys playing with dolls, girls playing with trucks”.