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What does less wokeness mean? Does it mean being more tolerant of abusive language? Does it mean being less tolerant of inclusive language? Both? Something else

by tompt 4y ago

What does less wokeness mean? Does it mean being more tolerant of abusive language? Does it mean being less tolerant of inclusive language? Both? Something else? I've heard folks ask for less wokeness, but I don't know what that would look like.

dillondoyle 4y ago
I wonder what the support % of allowing Trump back on is. At least it would make his social media scam/grift less valuable. but big societal damage imho
stjohnswarts 4y ago
Musk's primary reason for the twitter buyout is to allow Trump, Bannon, Musk, Thomas etc to speak freely on there, I suspect the amount of vitriol on twitter will go up at least one order of magnitude when these type of people are allowed free rein to do whatever they like on there. Elon is killing the golden goose with this buyout.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  I know who Trump and Bannon are, but who is Thomas?
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    I meant taylor-greene. that's a swype typo. I was multitasking and didn't catch it
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  Trump said today he's not going back to twitter after Musk buys it. I guess according to your definitive statements above, Musk just wasted his money.
WhyOhWhyQ 4y ago
As much as wokeness is about inclusivity, it is also about redefining out-groups and, usually implicitly but often explicitly, justifying prejudice against them. I'd personally be appreciative of less of that negative activity.
antisyzygy 4y ago
Normally in civilized society we don't go around abusing, insulting, and offending random strangers. "Wokeness" is the desire to treat others with some respect in public forums and the belief individuals have the right to disassociate themselves from those that do not abide by common decorum. I felt like I had to say it because the people complaining the loudest about "wokeness" have no clue what they're talking about. It's just a label they co-opted for some other behavior they don't like, and they need to get more specific about it because they're arguing using a totally different definition of "woke" than everyone else is using.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
  Definitions are important so people can avoid talking past each others, so it's good to define what "woke" means to you. But going past that and saying "my definition is right, everyone else has no clue" is not productive. I think you'll find most people who complain about wokeness have no issue treating others with respect and behaving with decorum. "Woke" people do not have a monopoly on kindness and respect. I'll give my definition of wokeness, which I think is shared by a lot of people who complain about it. "Wokeness", to me, is divisive self-righteous zealotry. It's a way for a lot of people who claim to stand for inclusion and kindness to ignore all nuance and paint themselves as morally superior while openly despising anyone who holds different beliefs.
  - antisyzygy 4y ago
    You're using a definition that nobody who identifies as a left wing "woke", inclusive or kind, person uses. This is demonstrating my point. I think you need to follow your own advice! You and those like you don't have a monopoly on what this term means either. In fact I'd argue the people who created the term have the right to define it. To your point, right leaning people can also be woke! I.e. concerned with inclusion, kindness and equity. Perhaps it's time to retire the word. It's become some off the cuff, ad hominem insult by right wing leaning people rather than retaining any of the original meaning. What I gather is that you actually have a problem with something specific that isn't related to "wokeness" but to the tribalism and "othering" that is going on among some left leaning people. This can be talked about specifically without abusing definitions or changing the meaning of words. I'd go further and argue using woke the way it is used currently by right leaning people is a form of othering in and of itself.
akomtu 4y ago
Less wokeness means not being able to hide censorship behind the "inclusiveness" facade. Saying "males and females are different" shouldn't result in a ban, even if some woke moderator feels deeply offended.

by tompt 4y ago

dillondoyle 4y ago

I wonder what the support % of allowing Trump back on is. At least it would make his social media scam/grift less valuable. but big societal damage imho

stjohnswarts 4y ago

Musk's primary reason for the twitter buyout is to allow Trump, Bannon, Musk, Thomas etc to speak freely on there, I suspect the amount of vitriol on twitter will go up at least one order of magnitude when these type of people are allowed free rein to do whatever they like on there. Elon is killing the golden goose with this buyout.

thepasswordis 4y ago
I know who Trump and Bannon are, but who is Thomas?
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  I meant taylor-greene. that's a swype typo. I was multitasking and didn't catch it
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
Trump said today he's not going back to twitter after Musk buys it. I guess according to your definitive statements above, Musk just wasted his money.

WhyOhWhyQ 4y ago

As much as wokeness is about inclusivity, it is also about redefining out-groups and, usually implicitly but often explicitly, justifying prejudice against them. I'd personally be appreciative of less of that negative activity.

antisyzygy 4y ago

Normally in civilized society we don't go around abusing, insulting, and offending random strangers. "Wokeness" is the desire to treat others with some respect in public forums and the belief individuals have the right to disassociate themselves from those that do not abide by common decorum. I felt like I had to say it because the people complaining the loudest about "wokeness" have no clue what they're talking about. It's just a label they co-opted for some other behavior they don't like, and they need to get more specific about it because they're arguing using a totally different definition of "woke" than everyone else is using.

ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
Definitions are important so people can avoid talking past each others, so it's good to define what "woke" means to you. But going past that and saying "my definition is right, everyone else has no clue" is not productive. I think you'll find most people who complain about wokeness have no issue treating others with respect and behaving with decorum. "Woke" people do not have a monopoly on kindness and respect. I'll give my definition of wokeness, which I think is shared by a lot of people who complain about it. "Wokeness", to me, is divisive self-righteous zealotry. It's a way for a lot of people who claim to stand for inclusion and kindness to ignore all nuance and paint themselves as morally superior while openly despising anyone who holds different beliefs.
- antisyzygy 4y ago
  You're using a definition that nobody who identifies as a left wing "woke", inclusive or kind, person uses. This is demonstrating my point. I think you need to follow your own advice! You and those like you don't have a monopoly on what this term means either. In fact I'd argue the people who created the term have the right to define it. To your point, right leaning people can also be woke! I.e. concerned with inclusion, kindness and equity. Perhaps it's time to retire the word. It's become some off the cuff, ad hominem insult by right wing leaning people rather than retaining any of the original meaning. What I gather is that you actually have a problem with something specific that isn't related to "wokeness" but to the tribalism and "othering" that is going on among some left leaning people. This can be talked about specifically without abusing definitions or changing the meaning of words. I'd go further and argue using woke the way it is used currently by right leaning people is a form of othering in and of itself.

akomtu 4y ago

Less wokeness means not being able to hide censorship behind the "inclusiveness" facade. Saying "males and females are different" shouldn't result in a ban, even if some woke moderator feels deeply offended.