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Okay, so imagine Germany does not allow gay marriage (not so hard, considering it did not do that until 2017, and had no legal recognition of same sex partners

by xyzzyz 5y ago

Okay, so imagine Germany does not allow gay marriage (not so hard, considering it did not do that until 2017, and had no legal recognition of same sex partnership at all before 2001). This would make gay marriage an illegal act. Do you think Germany then should be allowed to criminally prosecute people for advocating for the illegal act of gay marriage? Ability to advocate for illegal, repugnant, or offensive ideas or acts is in fact the entire point of free speech, so being able to do it is an essential right.

V__ 5y ago
That's a very good observation. I should've made sure to say that not all illegal acts are created equal, and those which are illegal to advocate for, are specially listed [1]. In summary, those basically are high treason, murder/manslaughter, assault, robbery, counterfeiting, creating fire/explosions/radiation, destroying/interference in infrastructure (planes etc.). [1] https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/138.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/138.html
- rightbyte 5y ago
  "High treason" seems arbitrary broad. E.g. advocating forming a republic from a monarchy is high treason or any form of separatism.
DocTomoe 5y ago
> This would make gay marriage an illegal act. Back in the day, noone prevented same-sex partners to marry in Germany in front of a religious congregation which allowed that according to their rules. They just couldn't get the marriage certificate from the State. As for the illegality: it would make gay marriage an impossible act, because the legal framework to marry two men (or two women) from a legal standpoint (which includes the marriage certificates and the rights and responsibilities associated with it) would not exist. A public official who wrote a marriage certificate for a same-sex couple in 1999 would not have committed a crime, he or she would just have written an invalid form which would have had no legal bearing (and the public official would probably have been reprimanded). Something you cannot do by definition cannot be illegal.

by xyzzyz 5y ago

V__ 5y ago

That's a very good observation. I should've made sure to say that not all illegal acts are created equal, and those which are illegal to advocate for, are specially listed [1]. In summary, those basically are high treason, murder/manslaughter, assault, robbery, counterfeiting, creating fire/explosions/radiation, destroying/interference in infrastructure (planes etc.). [1] https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/138.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/138.html

rightbyte 5y ago
"High treason" seems arbitrary broad. E.g. advocating forming a republic from a monarchy is high treason or any form of separatism.

DocTomoe 5y ago

> This would make gay marriage an illegal act. Back in the day, noone prevented same-sex partners to marry in Germany in front of a religious congregation which allowed that according to their rules. They just couldn't get the marriage certificate from the State. As for the illegality: it would make gay marriage an impossible act, because the legal framework to marry two men (or two women) from a legal standpoint (which includes the marriage certificates and the rights and responsibilities associated with it) would not exist. A public official who wrote a marriage certificate for a same-sex couple in 1999 would not have committed a crime, he or she would just have written an invalid form which would have had no legal bearing (and the public official would probably have been reprimanded). Something you cannot do by definition cannot be illegal.