4 ms·

Interesting. So dark money can remain secret, but on Twitter you'll be forced to doc yourself to prove you're human. I don't see how that's improved anything.

by Lendal 4y ago

tomlin 4y ago
Oh? So you don't see any benefit in an account having to prove its identity, or purchase a blue check with identity? How about bots? You will have to do cartwheels and backflips to convince anyone that someone will be willing to micromanage millions of bots, and their identity and payment profiles.
- shuckles 4y ago
  Facebook has had an official real name policy for a decade and was the primary source of online misinformation in the 2016 US Presidential election. How do you think Twitter will pull this off and actually improve?
  - tomlin 4y ago
    That's not really a 1:1 comparison. You don't go through any identify verification process, other than "First name Last name." Go on Facebook Marketplace, there are dozens upon dozens of dup accounts solely for the purposes of evading a bad review, or to scam people outright. vs. An application process, with identification verification. While optional, would allow any one who cares about their feed to completely turn off anyone who could be a scammer or bot. I don't remember that option in Facebook. I would definitely have it turned on. Not sure how these are even remotely comparable.
    - hooande 4y ago
      how many applications could this hypothetical process handle in a day? 100? 1000? twitter has 213 million active users. imagine if 20% of them want to get verified. it would take decades
      - tomlin 4y ago
        I dunno, but coinbase is doing it pretty effectively. So it is objectively not impossible, unless you want it to be. > Coinbase has more than 89 million registered and verified users https://earthweb.com/coinbase-statistics/#:~:text=4.1)%20Related%20Reading-,Key%20Coinbase%20Statistics%202022,million%20registered%20and%20verified%20users https://earthweb.com/coinbase-statistics/#:~:text=4.1)%20Rel....
      - dymk 4y ago
        There are approximately fifteen billion companies in the KYC space that provide means for automating ID verification. Very common in the financial compliance / trust & safety area of companies. Authenticate the security features on the ID? There's a company for that. Match the name / DOB on the ID against public record? Yep. Check the ID against a list of known fakes? Ezpz. Verify the format of the barcode on the back of an ID? There's another company that offers that. You get the jist.
        shuckles 4y ago
        You are underestimating the complexity of bringing KYC to an international product which, eg, supports business accounts. If it were easy, App Store wouldn’t be inundated with fraudulent apps.
  - hattmall 4y ago
    Look at Amazon. Fake accounts are hard, so hard to make that they sell in the $1000s. Then it's still incredibly hard to actually use that fake account because so many actions will get them suspended. That's not to say Amazon isn't rampant with scams because the profit incentives from a single account are so great. You can sell a couple hundred 2TB Thumb drives for $30 per day and it will take a month or longer to accumulate enough bad reviews to have the account shutdown. I don't think the profit motivations on Twitter will be similar enough.
- nerfhammer 4y ago
  I have a feeling facebook's real name policy is because it's somehow better for ad profiling
  - dymk 4y ago
    It's not, your real name is one of the less useful pieces of data used in ad targeting.
  - astrange 4y ago
    It's because Facebook is for old people, who remember phonebooks and letters to the editor and are impressed when they see a real name and think it's authentic. Of course, in practice they're just as vicious to each other under their real names.
crisdux 4y ago
I envision they would implement a strategy that strengthens digital identity while not affecting those who wish to stay anonymous. Basically they would grant digital identity to those who want it, with that would come additional digital rights. Twitter could contribute a lot to this space.
wwweston 4y ago
"Human" and "pseudonymous" aren't exclusive, and there's a number of ways to verify the former w/o documenting real identity. Keeping things as human only as possible means that you can't scale-up apparent vocality of opinion via automation.
- schrodinger 4y ago
  Interesting approach I learned about today… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
  - 58x14 4y ago
    Thanks for this - I've had a fuzzy assumption this was occurring over the last decade. I've noticed variations of this strategy to swarm certain trending posts on various platforms (particularly reddit) with an assortment of low-effort, vaguely positive and pro-CCP comments. Lately I've seen this frequently on Shanghai posts about the extreme situation unfolding there. Funny, I've also noticed this strategy is very common in the cryptocurrency space, especially in Telegram groups. Signal-to-noise is abysmal.
- tshaddox 4y ago
  I’m a human who can create a bot to tweet on my account. Are you suggesting that Twitter would require a captcha on every tweet?
  - trompetenaccoun 4y ago
    No, I think what they're suggesting is preventing actors from creating thousands of accounts and having bots run them. Although it's not as easy as accounts can still be bought or hacked of course. There are some approaches that suggest something similar as you say, not for every post but an occasional proof that you're human, like once a month. Check out IDENA.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Anonymity goes directly against Twitter's advertising revenue model that requires targeted advertising. Platforms want to know who you are so they can collate data from disparate sources and appease their partners. Twitter could verify that you're a human in order to let you use the platform, but they don't, they instead verify your identity. Google does the same thing, and Facebook, too. They want a phone number tied to real accounts with cell providers or photo IDs. It's not just about bot prevention, it's about monetizing their user base.
boppo1 4y ago
Have they confirmed identity verification?

Interesting. So dark money can remain secret, but on Twitter you'll be forced to doc yourself to prove you're human. I don't see how that's improved anything.

by Lendal 4y ago

Interesting. So dark money can remain secret, but on Twitter you'll be forced to doc yourself to prove you're human. I don't see how that's improved anything.

tomlin 4y ago

Oh? So you don't see any benefit in an account having to prove its identity, or purchase a blue check with identity? How about bots? You will have to do cartwheels and backflips to convince anyone that someone will be willing to micromanage millions of bots, and their identity and payment profiles.

shuckles 4y ago
Facebook has had an official real name policy for a decade and was the primary source of online misinformation in the 2016 US Presidential election. How do you think Twitter will pull this off and actually improve?
- tomlin 4y ago
  That's not really a 1:1 comparison. You don't go through any identify verification process, other than "First name Last name." Go on Facebook Marketplace, there are dozens upon dozens of dup accounts solely for the purposes of evading a bad review, or to scam people outright. vs. An application process, with identification verification. While optional, would allow any one who cares about their feed to completely turn off anyone who could be a scammer or bot. I don't remember that option in Facebook. I would definitely have it turned on. Not sure how these are even remotely comparable.
  - hooande 4y ago
    how many applications could this hypothetical process handle in a day? 100? 1000? twitter has 213 million active users. imagine if 20% of them want to get verified. it would take decades
    - tomlin 4y ago
      I dunno, but coinbase is doing it pretty effectively. So it is objectively not impossible, unless you want it to be. > Coinbase has more than 89 million registered and verified users https://earthweb.com/coinbase-statistics/#:~:text=4.1)%20Related%20Reading-,Key%20Coinbase%20Statistics%202022,million%20registered%20and%20verified%20users https://earthweb.com/coinbase-statistics/#:~:text=4.1)%20Rel....
    - dymk 4y ago
      There are approximately fifteen billion companies in the KYC space that provide means for automating ID verification. Very common in the financial compliance / trust & safety area of companies. Authenticate the security features on the ID? There's a company for that. Match the name / DOB on the ID against public record? Yep. Check the ID against a list of known fakes? Ezpz. Verify the format of the barcode on the back of an ID? There's another company that offers that. You get the jist.
      - shuckles 4y ago
        You are underestimating the complexity of bringing KYC to an international product which, eg, supports business accounts. If it were easy, App Store wouldn’t be inundated with fraudulent apps.
- hattmall 4y ago
  Look at Amazon. Fake accounts are hard, so hard to make that they sell in the $1000s. Then it's still incredibly hard to actually use that fake account because so many actions will get them suspended. That's not to say Amazon isn't rampant with scams because the profit incentives from a single account are so great. You can sell a couple hundred 2TB Thumb drives for $30 per day and it will take a month or longer to accumulate enough bad reviews to have the account shutdown. I don't think the profit motivations on Twitter will be similar enough.
nerfhammer 4y ago
I have a feeling facebook's real name policy is because it's somehow better for ad profiling
- dymk 4y ago
  It's not, your real name is one of the less useful pieces of data used in ad targeting.
- astrange 4y ago
  It's because Facebook is for old people, who remember phonebooks and letters to the editor and are impressed when they see a real name and think it's authentic. Of course, in practice they're just as vicious to each other under their real names.

crisdux 4y ago

I envision they would implement a strategy that strengthens digital identity while not affecting those who wish to stay anonymous. Basically they would grant digital identity to those who want it, with that would come additional digital rights. Twitter could contribute a lot to this space.

wwweston 4y ago

"Human" and "pseudonymous" aren't exclusive, and there's a number of ways to verify the former w/o documenting real identity. Keeping things as human only as possible means that you can't scale-up apparent vocality of opinion via automation.

schrodinger 4y ago
Interesting approach I learned about today… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
- 58x14 4y ago
  Thanks for this - I've had a fuzzy assumption this was occurring over the last decade. I've noticed variations of this strategy to swarm certain trending posts on various platforms (particularly reddit) with an assortment of low-effort, vaguely positive and pro-CCP comments. Lately I've seen this frequently on Shanghai posts about the extreme situation unfolding there. Funny, I've also noticed this strategy is very common in the cryptocurrency space, especially in Telegram groups. Signal-to-noise is abysmal.
tshaddox 4y ago
I’m a human who can create a bot to tweet on my account. Are you suggesting that Twitter would require a captcha on every tweet?
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  No, I think what they're suggesting is preventing actors from creating thousands of accounts and having bots run them. Although it's not as easy as accounts can still be bought or hacked of course. There are some approaches that suggest something similar as you say, not for every post but an occasional proof that you're human, like once a month. Check out IDENA.
heavyset_go 4y ago
Anonymity goes directly against Twitter's advertising revenue model that requires targeted advertising. Platforms want to know who you are so they can collate data from disparate sources and appease their partners. Twitter could verify that you're a human in order to let you use the platform, but they don't, they instead verify your identity. Google does the same thing, and Facebook, too. They want a phone number tied to real accounts with cell providers or photo IDs. It's not just about bot prevention, it's about monetizing their user base.

boppo1 4y ago

Have they confirmed identity verification?