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Here's the mental hurdle I have to get over with all this. And call me old fashioned, but I'm trying to figure out how a guy who has himself essentially proved

Here's the mental hurdle I have to get over with all this. And call me old fashioned, but I'm trying to figure out how a guy who has himself essentially proved to be a troll is supposed to be the right person to improve the quality of human interaction on the platform. The whole "pedo guy" episode comes to mind. Are my concerns too simplistic here? Somebody help me feel better about all this.

DodgyEggplant 4y ago
It took years, sometimes centuries, to understand that in some industries a take over should get a regulatory approval. Maybe a central social media platform with enormous influence on public opinions, should be too.
tmp_anon_22 4y ago
"Oh he was just joking when he said that"
- la6472 4y ago
  Mr T will be tweeting again!!
  - philosopher1234 4y ago
    enjoy the end of democracy, i hope it makes you feel whole.
nh23423fefe 4y ago
You invented a fake mental hurdle that you can't jump over. You setup a strawman argument that you yourself can't see past? Improving human interaction isn't anyone's goal. Imagining there is a "right person" is fake. Why are people imagining the network which invented contextless hot takes is somehow now the most important public square which must be protected from what? Twitter will be destroyed and we won't have what?
- hackernewds 4y ago
  If you're positing Twitter does not influence political power and reach, it's hard to accept any other arguments seriously
  - nh23423fefe 4y ago
    Good thing that I didn't do that.
- ghostbrainalpha 4y ago
  I like this. We love to frame every news story as a key battle in the epic struggle of Good vs Evil. But sometimes, there is something happening that is just random... stuff.
- philosopher1234 4y ago
  >Why are people imagining the network which invented contextless hot takes is somehow now the most important public square which must be protected from what? Twitter will be destroyed and we won't have what? If you don't find it valuable, why are you in this thread arguing about it? For the past year the baseline opinion on HN about twitter was that it should be considered the public square and trump should not be banned (no one would say this specifically but if you poke people this is what they actually care about).
- davesque 4y ago
  I think you're taking some of my language too literally. I wasn't necessarily claiming that Twitter has some yet to be found soul mate in the form of a perfect owner. I was more suggesting that someone whose behavior has at times seemed erratic and immature might not provide the best leadership for a company like Twitter. Especially since, ostensibly, their business is all about how people present themselves and communicate on the internet. I guess I thought someone might come along with some technical, economic reasons why his individual behavior and choices might not factor in as much as I imagine. Although I guess the way I began the discussion probably invited misinterpretations.
Consultant32452 4y ago
I don't mean this as the attack it's going to sound like, but your comfort isn't a concern. We've seen the social media companies work in unison to censor important information that later was proven to be true. Examples are abound and I'm not going to debate them here. I'm hopeful that will come to an end. This kind of censorship only works if "everyone" is doing it. With the reduced censorship, there will be lots of nonsense I'm uninterested in. I will not follow nonsense accounts and will simply block them if necessary.
nailer 4y ago
Pedo guy wasn’t a troll. Musk believed that a man of a certain age that lives alone in Thailand might be a paedophile and this wouldn’t be the first example.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  It wasn't a troll, that is true. It was an attack. He wasn't making a generalized accusation, he levied it at an individual. Someone who had been critical of him. The saddest part is that he got away with it.
  - nailer 4y ago
    Agreed it was an attack. Do you not consider the other man attacked him?
munk-a 4y ago
He's got money and in theory he can float the existence of Twitter in an unprofitable state for a while. The fact that he's borrowing so much for the purchase means it's unlikely that's how it will actually work but Twitter feels much more utility-like than a profitable business. Some rando rich guy stepping in to float the bill for a decade or so seems reasonable to me.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  If Twitter were unmotivated my money and functioned more as a utility under the moral compass of Jack, that seems like a better outcome than a rich guy who deeply cares about money and the stock beholden to capitalistic profit driven investors, no?
  - munk-a 4y ago
    I'm not well versed enough on their influences to really comment on their relative moral compasses. I'm more focused on the monetization side of things. My understanding is that the bot-fury we've got going on on Twitter right now is largely a result of a monetization goal being misaligned with a usability goal. Removing the question of monetization and having it sustained purely and openly as a money burning pit seems like a better state. I definitely don't embrace Elon Musk's politics as he is vehemently anti-union, but I don't know how much he'd force Twitter to become an echo chamber for himself.
psychlops 4y ago
What qualities does the "right" person have? Is the goal of a financial takeover actually finding the right people to run it? Are the current people the right people?
Pxtl 4y ago
> The whole "pedo guy" episode comes to mind Yeah, I think HNers supporting this should reflect on the fact that comments like this would get you moderated and rate-limited here on HN, and that's generally considered a good thing.
javajosh 4y ago
Another approach is to look at all the people you admire, and I mean ALL of them, and read up on the things they've done, and recognize that you either take the good with the bad, or you end up alone. Musk was wrong about the "pedo guy" thing. There are also stories of him firing people for no reason, to satisfy his own petty emotional needs. None of this is okay. Einstein (and Ghandi, and MLK) cheated on their wives. Harvey Weinstien is a predator who produced Pulp Fiction. Ben Franklin (and Henry Ford) were virulent anti-semites. Von Neumann wanted to preemptively nuke Russia. Lincoln freed the slaves but was overtly racist. So go ahead and cut Musk out of your life for his behavior. But don't forget to cut out everyone else who's done what he's done, and worse. And cut out all those who don't agree with you, and certainly do not dirty yourself by the use of their discoveries. Do not watch, listen, or use what they've made, for these are the products of bad men, and by using their work you become bad, too.
- davesque 4y ago
  This is a great reply actually and does help to make me feel better. A lot of history's imperfections become lost in the distance. Although I should say that my list of idols is short for this very reason. I don't think I ever imagine that the real people behind historical figures were as perfect as we imagine. I think there's also an argument that we live in a time where a single person's failings have an outsized impact on the broader world because of how quickly their words travel. But the real impact of this is debatable. It's probably been said in every era that "this time is different."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- qwertygnu 4y ago
  What's this about Ben Franklin being anti-Semitic? All the search results I see are articles dispelling that myth. e.g. https://www.jewishboston.com/read/how-benjamin-franklin-became-an-antisemite/ https://www.jewishboston.com/read/how-benjamin-franklin-beca...
  - javajosh 4y ago

DodgyEggplant 4y ago

It took years, sometimes centuries, to understand that in some industries a take over should get a regulatory approval. Maybe a central social media platform with enormous influence on public opinions, should be too.

tmp_anon_22 4y ago

"Oh he was just joking when he said that"

la6472 4y ago
Mr T will be tweeting again!!
- philosopher1234 4y ago
  enjoy the end of democracy, i hope it makes you feel whole.

nh23423fefe 4y ago

You invented a fake mental hurdle that you can't jump over. You setup a strawman argument that you yourself can't see past? Improving human interaction isn't anyone's goal. Imagining there is a "right person" is fake. Why are people imagining the network which invented contextless hot takes is somehow now the most important public square which must be protected from what? Twitter will be destroyed and we won't have what?

hackernewds 4y ago
If you're positing Twitter does not influence political power and reach, it's hard to accept any other arguments seriously
- nh23423fefe 4y ago
  Good thing that I didn't do that.
ghostbrainalpha 4y ago
I like this. We love to frame every news story as a key battle in the epic struggle of Good vs Evil. But sometimes, there is something happening that is just random... stuff.
philosopher1234 4y ago
>Why are people imagining the network which invented contextless hot takes is somehow now the most important public square which must be protected from what? Twitter will be destroyed and we won't have what? If you don't find it valuable, why are you in this thread arguing about it? For the past year the baseline opinion on HN about twitter was that it should be considered the public square and trump should not be banned (no one would say this specifically but if you poke people this is what they actually care about).
davesque 4y ago
I think you're taking some of my language too literally. I wasn't necessarily claiming that Twitter has some yet to be found soul mate in the form of a perfect owner. I was more suggesting that someone whose behavior has at times seemed erratic and immature might not provide the best leadership for a company like Twitter. Especially since, ostensibly, their business is all about how people present themselves and communicate on the internet. I guess I thought someone might come along with some technical, economic reasons why his individual behavior and choices might not factor in as much as I imagine. Although I guess the way I began the discussion probably invited misinterpretations.

Consultant32452 4y ago

I don't mean this as the attack it's going to sound like, but your comfort isn't a concern. We've seen the social media companies work in unison to censor important information that later was proven to be true. Examples are abound and I'm not going to debate them here. I'm hopeful that will come to an end. This kind of censorship only works if "everyone" is doing it. With the reduced censorship, there will be lots of nonsense I'm uninterested in. I will not follow nonsense accounts and will simply block them if necessary.

nailer 4y ago

Pedo guy wasn’t a troll. Musk believed that a man of a certain age that lives alone in Thailand might be a paedophile and this wouldn’t be the first example.

rootusrootus 4y ago
It wasn't a troll, that is true. It was an attack. He wasn't making a generalized accusation, he levied it at an individual. Someone who had been critical of him. The saddest part is that he got away with it.
- nailer 4y ago
  Agreed it was an attack. Do you not consider the other man attacked him?

munk-a 4y ago

He's got money and in theory he can float the existence of Twitter in an unprofitable state for a while. The fact that he's borrowing so much for the purchase means it's unlikely that's how it will actually work but Twitter feels much more utility-like than a profitable business. Some rando rich guy stepping in to float the bill for a decade or so seems reasonable to me.

hackernewds 4y ago
If Twitter were unmotivated my money and functioned more as a utility under the moral compass of Jack, that seems like a better outcome than a rich guy who deeply cares about money and the stock beholden to capitalistic profit driven investors, no?
- munk-a 4y ago
  I'm not well versed enough on their influences to really comment on their relative moral compasses. I'm more focused on the monetization side of things. My understanding is that the bot-fury we've got going on on Twitter right now is largely a result of a monetization goal being misaligned with a usability goal. Removing the question of monetization and having it sustained purely and openly as a money burning pit seems like a better state. I definitely don't embrace Elon Musk's politics as he is vehemently anti-union, but I don't know how much he'd force Twitter to become an echo chamber for himself.

psychlops 4y ago

What qualities does the "right" person have? Is the goal of a financial takeover actually finding the right people to run it? Are the current people the right people?

Pxtl 4y ago

> The whole "pedo guy" episode comes to mind Yeah, I think HNers supporting this should reflect on the fact that comments like this would get you moderated and rate-limited here on HN, and that's generally considered a good thing.

javajosh 4y ago

Another approach is to look at all the people you admire, and I mean ALL of them, and read up on the things they've done, and recognize that you either take the good with the bad, or you end up alone. Musk was wrong about the "pedo guy" thing. There are also stories of him firing people for no reason, to satisfy his own petty emotional needs. None of this is okay. Einstein (and Ghandi, and MLK) cheated on their wives. Harvey Weinstien is a predator who produced Pulp Fiction. Ben Franklin (and Henry Ford) were virulent anti-semites. Von Neumann wanted to preemptively nuke Russia. Lincoln freed the slaves but was overtly racist. So go ahead and cut Musk out of your life for his behavior. But don't forget to cut out everyone else who's done what he's done, and worse. And cut out all those who don't agree with you, and certainly do not dirty yourself by the use of their discoveries. Do not watch, listen, or use what they've made, for these are the products of bad men, and by using their work you become bad, too.

davesque 4y ago
This is a great reply actually and does help to make me feel better. A lot of history's imperfections become lost in the distance. Although I should say that my list of idols is short for this very reason. I don't think I ever imagine that the real people behind historical figures were as perfect as we imagine. I think there's also an argument that we live in a time where a single person's failings have an outsized impact on the broader world because of how quickly their words travel. But the real impact of this is debatable. It's probably been said in every era that "this time is different."
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
qwertygnu 4y ago
What's this about Ben Franklin being anti-Semitic? All the search results I see are articles dispelling that myth. e.g. https://www.jewishboston.com/read/how-benjamin-franklin-became-an-antisemite/ https://www.jewishboston.com/read/how-benjamin-franklin-beca...
- javajosh 4y ago