5 ms·

I suspect the causality is reversed: Housing is not considered a long-term investment because demolition and new construction is easy.

asciimike 5y ago
Really good article on zoning in Japan: http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html I think it's a bit of both, it's not viewed as as much of an investment therefore zoning laws are lax, which mean that housing can't become an investment because anyone can build (up to) anything on a lot.
Tiktaalik 5y ago
I think the tax code even incentivizes demolition in that the taxes for sales of bare land versus land with a structure on it are less.
- MarkSweep 5y ago
  In constraint, California tax policy incentivizes keeping around crappy old buildings. If keep the old building, Proposition 13 limits how much your tax can go up. If you build a nice new building, the state punishes you but reassessing the value of your property. This can greatly increase your property tax if you have owned the property for a while.
MengerSponge 5y ago
My instinct is that the causal arrow begins with earthquakes and disposable (timber-based) building practices, which keep housing/structures from being viewed as stable long-term vehicles
- xxpor 5y ago
  So why didnt California end up in that state, concidering it has nearly the same conditions?
  - ac29 5y ago
    California is seismically active, but not like Japan: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/EQs_1900-2013_worldseis.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/EQs_1900...
  - MengerSponge 5y ago
    That's a very good question. Probably because modern California was settled by European colonizers, who brought their traditional construction and property practices with them? I'd love to see a sociologist's analysis of the ring of fire, though. If anyone knows of someone who isn't just talking out their butt (like me), please drop a rec
    - quartesixte 5y ago
      >That's a very good question. Probably because modern California was settled by European colonizers, who brought their traditional construction and property practices with them? Like lawns! Like California is the completely wrong state for lawns.
      - dntrkv 5y ago
        California is a massive state with 16 different climate zones. The vast majority of California is not a desert. Lawns are fine in most of the state.
        MengerSponge 5y ago
        But most Californians do live in the desert. Lawns may be fine in most of the state, but not many people live in those parts.
        dntrkv 5y ago
        No, most Californians do not live in the desert, not even close. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/K%C3%B6ppen_Climate_Types_California.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/K%C3%B6p...
- astrange 5y ago
  Japanese houses are low quality (they have single pane windows, no insulation at all, and no central heat because they think it builds character). But they’re no more timber based than US houses are, and there’s nothing overly temporary about building a house out of wood, especially new forms like CLT.
  - ryan_lane 5y ago
    This may have been true in the past, but it is definitely not true at this time. I'm currently shopping for homes in Tokyo, and the current generation of homes being built are high quality, insulated, with double pane windows, heated wood floors, incredible bathrooms (fully floodable, giant tubs, air conditioning/heating/24 hour ventilation), separated toilets with heated seats and bidets, and generally at least one nice balcony. There's no central heat, but that's because it's wasteful. Each room has one or more air conditioners (which are heat pumps). I heat (or cool) whichever room I'm currently in, and don't need to waste energy on the entire residence.
    - distances 5y ago
      For what it's worth, central heating as I understand it can usually also be controlled separately for each room. In Central Europe I too heat mainly the rooms I use (say, living room during daytime and bedroom at nights).
      - fatnoah 5y ago
        It definitely is. I live in the US, and my house has 3 separate "zones" for heating and cooling. Programmable thermostats turn things off and on automatically based on a pre-set schedule, and the schedules can also be overridden. The result is that we're generally only heating or cooling the parts of the house that we're using.
        ryan_lane 5y ago
        It can be, but it's not the norm. I've personally never lived somewhere that has programmable central heating/cooling.

asciimike 5y ago

Really good article on zoning in Japan: http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html I think it's a bit of both, it's not viewed as as much of an investment therefore zoning laws are lax, which mean that housing can't become an investment because anyone can build (up to) anything on a lot.

Tiktaalik 5y ago

I think the tax code even incentivizes demolition in that the taxes for sales of bare land versus land with a structure on it are less.

MarkSweep 5y ago
In constraint, California tax policy incentivizes keeping around crappy old buildings. If keep the old building, Proposition 13 limits how much your tax can go up. If you build a nice new building, the state punishes you but reassessing the value of your property. This can greatly increase your property tax if you have owned the property for a while.

MengerSponge 5y ago

My instinct is that the causal arrow begins with earthquakes and disposable (timber-based) building practices, which keep housing/structures from being viewed as stable long-term vehicles

xxpor 5y ago
So why didnt California end up in that state, concidering it has nearly the same conditions?
- ac29 5y ago
  California is seismically active, but not like Japan: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/EQs_1900-2013_worldseis.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/EQs_1900...
- MengerSponge 5y ago
  That's a very good question. Probably because modern California was settled by European colonizers, who brought their traditional construction and property practices with them? I'd love to see a sociologist's analysis of the ring of fire, though. If anyone knows of someone who isn't just talking out their butt (like me), please drop a rec
  - quartesixte 5y ago
    >That's a very good question. Probably because modern California was settled by European colonizers, who brought their traditional construction and property practices with them? Like lawns! Like California is the completely wrong state for lawns.
    - dntrkv 5y ago
      California is a massive state with 16 different climate zones. The vast majority of California is not a desert. Lawns are fine in most of the state.
      - MengerSponge 5y ago
        But most Californians do live in the desert. Lawns may be fine in most of the state, but not many people live in those parts.
        dntrkv 5y ago
        No, most Californians do not live in the desert, not even close. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/K%C3%B6ppen_Climate_Types_California.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/K%C3%B6p...
astrange 5y ago
Japanese houses are low quality (they have single pane windows, no insulation at all, and no central heat because they think it builds character). But they’re no more timber based than US houses are, and there’s nothing overly temporary about building a house out of wood, especially new forms like CLT.
- ryan_lane 5y ago
  This may have been true in the past, but it is definitely not true at this time. I'm currently shopping for homes in Tokyo, and the current generation of homes being built are high quality, insulated, with double pane windows, heated wood floors, incredible bathrooms (fully floodable, giant tubs, air conditioning/heating/24 hour ventilation), separated toilets with heated seats and bidets, and generally at least one nice balcony. There's no central heat, but that's because it's wasteful. Each room has one or more air conditioners (which are heat pumps). I heat (or cool) whichever room I'm currently in, and don't need to waste energy on the entire residence.
  - distances 5y ago
    For what it's worth, central heating as I understand it can usually also be controlled separately for each room. In Central Europe I too heat mainly the rooms I use (say, living room during daytime and bedroom at nights).
    - fatnoah 5y ago
      It definitely is. I live in the US, and my house has 3 separate "zones" for heating and cooling. Programmable thermostats turn things off and on automatically based on a pre-set schedule, and the schedules can also be overridden. The result is that we're generally only heating or cooling the parts of the house that we're using.
      - ryan_lane 5y ago
        It can be, but it's not the norm. I've personally never lived somewhere that has programmable central heating/cooling.