7 ms·

IMHO, we should add “Be Human first, everything else comes later”.

AlwaysRock 5y ago
100%. I've worked for a lot of bad managers and 2 good ones. 1 of the good ones wasnt a great human but an incredible teacher. The other was an okay teacher but an incredible human. The later I'm still in contact with and we've stayed in touch for 5 plus years. A lot of what I'm looking for in a boss is just someone who kind and understanding. It's shocking how low that is on most managers agendas.
- ttoinou 5y ago
  Maybe it's not just about the managers but also how do employees treat the relationship with their managers. i.e. it's a two way street
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    It is, but I think it's the manager's job to be the first to take the emotional risks, and continue to do so even when they're not immediately reciprocated.
    - ttoinou 5y ago
      If the other doesn't know you moved forward, why would he/she change his behavior ? It looks like the relationship will continue as it began forever - one sided.
      - chrsig 5y ago
        Well, if you're doing a good job of treating the person...y'know, as a person, then you can ask them to change their behavior. And generally they'll be amenable to reciprocate. Also: Why doesn't the other person know you've "moved forward"? Try communicating that you have.
        ttoinou 5y ago
        In real life it doesnt work that way
- prmph 5y ago
  Well, as an engineering team lead for years, and recently founder of a small gig, increasingly I've been shocked at how many people (employees, contractors, prospective business partners or co-founders) just want to take the easy way out, instead of putting in honest, conscientious, reflective work and effort, or are just plain incompetent at what they claim to be good at. Every once on a while you come across someone that is enthusiastic, actually competent, and wants to do things to the best of their ability (or a reasonable approximation thereof), but those are few IMHO. I mean, I know not all people can be interested in all things, but if you say you're up for something, be it a job, project, or partnership, you've got to give it your reasonable best. I think the need to be kind and nice all too often is abused by their targets. The key is to find a way to be kind and flexible, but not allowing that to paper over rank incompetence or a bad attitude.
  - ttoinou 5y ago
    It's even worse than what you say sometimes : some people are actually competent in engineering, but when it comes to simply remembering basic stuff or communicating about what they do -- total blackout. Meaning, they just want someone else to manage every little thing they have to do, remember the small details. And then they'd complain they don't like to be micro managed
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - AlwaysRock 4y ago
    I guess I'm not really sure what your point is but it seems like you're saying being nice and delivering are not compatible. You can have high standards and expectations and still be nice. In reality no one is going to be operating at 100% all of the time. They will have good days and bad days. I assume that others are doing their best. If their best is not enough for the role they were hired for than I made a bad hire. If I cant find a way to communicate expectations and standards without remaining nice than I'm the one taking the easy way out. It's easy to be an ass and use emotion to make strong employees feel like they need to do better or deliver more. But at the end of the day your employees will leave once they have had enough. I've left jobs I was highly effective at because my manager was constantly pushing for more and more. I would have stayed much longer if they would have had the EQ to recognize that I was operating at a high level and praise and kindness would be more effective in the long run. Who cares if someone delivers more of X when they leave in 6-12 months? Every gain will be canceled out by the amount of time you will spend finding their replacement and training them. So to end my ramblings... If your point is that kindness can be abused... Sure. I agree. But is choosing to be kind and understanding, even if you feel like you are being abused at times, going to lead to you having significantly greater employee retention? Will choosing to act some other way cause your employees to leave which will drop their production from whatever % to 0% for an extended period of time?
skeeter2020 5y ago
Agree! As an EM I've felt that the simple act of genuinely caring about your people can get you a long way. So much of the day-to-day execution falls into place when you follow your prime directive, and when you need to do unpleasant things you've earned the legitimacy and trust handle them.
acjohnson55 5y ago
I like that. It evokes memories of some significant moments in my management career, and also places where leaders have lost my trust.

100%. I've worked for a lot of bad managers and 2 good ones. 1 of the good ones wasnt a great human but an incredible teacher. The other was an okay teacher but an incredible human. The later I'm still in contact with and we've stayed in touch for 5 plus years. A lot of what I'm looking for in a boss is just someone who kind and understanding. It's shocking how low that is on most managers agendas.

ttoinou 5y ago
Maybe it's not just about the managers but also how do employees treat the relationship with their managers. i.e. it's a two way street
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  It is, but I think it's the manager's job to be the first to take the emotional risks, and continue to do so even when they're not immediately reciprocated.
  - ttoinou 5y ago
    If the other doesn't know you moved forward, why would he/she change his behavior ? It looks like the relationship will continue as it began forever - one sided.
    - chrsig 5y ago
      Well, if you're doing a good job of treating the person...y'know, as a person, then you can ask them to change their behavior. And generally they'll be amenable to reciprocate. Also: Why doesn't the other person know you've "moved forward"? Try communicating that you have.
      - ttoinou 5y ago
        In real life it doesnt work that way
prmph 5y ago
Well, as an engineering team lead for years, and recently founder of a small gig, increasingly I've been shocked at how many people (employees, contractors, prospective business partners or co-founders) just want to take the easy way out, instead of putting in honest, conscientious, reflective work and effort, or are just plain incompetent at what they claim to be good at. Every once on a while you come across someone that is enthusiastic, actually competent, and wants to do things to the best of their ability (or a reasonable approximation thereof), but those are few IMHO. I mean, I know not all people can be interested in all things, but if you say you're up for something, be it a job, project, or partnership, you've got to give it your reasonable best. I think the need to be kind and nice all too often is abused by their targets. The key is to find a way to be kind and flexible, but not allowing that to paper over rank incompetence or a bad attitude.
- ttoinou 5y ago
  It's even worse than what you say sometimes : some people are actually competent in engineering, but when it comes to simply remembering basic stuff or communicating about what they do -- total blackout. Meaning, they just want someone else to manage every little thing they have to do, remember the small details. And then they'd complain they don't like to be micro managed
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- AlwaysRock 4y ago
  I guess I'm not really sure what your point is but it seems like you're saying being nice and delivering are not compatible. You can have high standards and expectations and still be nice. In reality no one is going to be operating at 100% all of the time. They will have good days and bad days. I assume that others are doing their best. If their best is not enough for the role they were hired for than I made a bad hire. If I cant find a way to communicate expectations and standards without remaining nice than I'm the one taking the easy way out. It's easy to be an ass and use emotion to make strong employees feel like they need to do better or deliver more. But at the end of the day your employees will leave once they have had enough. I've left jobs I was highly effective at because my manager was constantly pushing for more and more. I would have stayed much longer if they would have had the EQ to recognize that I was operating at a high level and praise and kindness would be more effective in the long run. Who cares if someone delivers more of X when they leave in 6-12 months? Every gain will be canceled out by the amount of time you will spend finding their replacement and training them. So to end my ramblings... If your point is that kindness can be abused... Sure. I agree. But is choosing to be kind and understanding, even if you feel like you are being abused at times, going to lead to you having significantly greater employee retention? Will choosing to act some other way cause your employees to leave which will drop their production from whatever % to 0% for an extended period of time?

skeeter2020 5y ago

Agree! As an EM I've felt that the simple act of genuinely caring about your people can get you a long way. So much of the day-to-day execution falls into place when you follow your prime directive, and when you need to do unpleasant things you've earned the legitimacy and trust handle them.

acjohnson55 5y ago

I like that. It evokes memories of some significant moments in my management career, and also places where leaders have lost my trust.