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Free speech absolutism isn't really the norm in places where people come together for any shared purpose. Courts and parliaments have rules of procedure so it'
by RockyMcNuts 4y ago
Free speech absolutism isn't really the norm in places where people come together for any shared purpose.
Courts and parliaments have rules of procedure so it's not, whoever's loudest wins.
Free speech is never 100% free, there are laws against libel, fraud, conspiracy, copyright, trademark, which create crimes that consist only of speech, or civil liability. And then there are social norms.
It's always a balance between letting 20% of hateful crazy trolls hijack all rational conversation, on the one hand, and blocking unpopular opinions on the other hand. Even HN moderates a lot.
Same applies to all the rights enumerated in the US Constitution, you have freedom of religion to the extent it doesn't infringe on the other important rights and provisions of the Constitution. Polygamy is banned. If your religion says servitude of women or Black people is God's will, you don't get to practice it. 2nd Amendment however broadly interpreted doesn't let you build a nuclear weapon in your backyard.
There are people who want to block legitimate speech they don't want to hear and these should be resisted. A first step toward fascism is indeed people not caring about free speech and thinking their personal discomfort is the most important thing, starting with the most powerful. There are also liars and extremists who want to take a first step toward fascism by extinguishing the ability to have the sorts of rational debate we need in a democracy.
You need to find a balance. You need to protect free speech by having reasonable rules and norms.
"Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness." - George Washington
- bombcar 4y agoWe need to stop using the term free speech as it literally means restricted speech (because everyone agrees there needs to be limits).
- raxxorraxor 4y agoOur laws for copyright and trademarks are pretty broken and inhibit innovation more than they protect it. It is still the law, but not a good measure. Conspiracies are entertaining and there are consequences for libel and fraud. So what is the problem again? There are social norms? General norms for the whole planet you mean? I have yet to hear a good case for more content control on the internet. The EU just voted for a law against illegal content? Makes no sense at all. But it is also against hate and for propaganda. Some say it is historic. Doesn't make a good case for history then. I don't think your quote adequately confirms the incentive of big tech companies deleting user content. Yes, the anonymous blob of internet users has arbitrary und unlimited powers. Should I really believe that?
- RockyMcNuts 4y agoat risk of stating the obvious, I was not making a straw man argument, Musk called himself a 'free speech absolutist', said “It’s just really important that people have the reality and the perception that they’re able to speak freely within the bounds of the law”, was in touch with Babylon Bee folks about their getting blocked, pretty clearly wants a hands-off approach to moderation, on the other hand he says they need to get rid of spam which is not illegal so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯