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I'd argue the most important of the changes Musk has suggested are transparency around the recommendation and ranking algorithms and the datasets used to train

I'd argue the most important of the changes Musk has suggested are transparency around the recommendation and ranking algorithms and the datasets used to train them, and increasing the character count of posts up to 512-1024 characters. There's a lot of mystery about how these algorithms are designed, trained and used in practice - and not just at Twitter - and having all that open-sourced would in itself be a huge benefit to the whole world. A whole lot of authoritarian outfits are trying to use these algorithms as a means of social control and popular opinion manipulation - and not just in places like Russia and China - and it's reached the point where understanding how such systems are used is kind of critical to preserving the future of non-authoritarian society. As far as long-form Twitter, at the very least doubling the character count would allow for a lot more nuance in Twitter communication, which is defintely lacking at present. And no, multiple posts in threads don't really work for that purpose because of the way those individual posts are distributed elsewhere, without context.

interblag 5y ago
There might be some value in opening these algorithms up but, also, the moment you reveal how they work you will immediately start to see them gamified. Aspects of content recommendation/moderation will always be adversarial, and there are many good arguments in favour of some opacity in these types of systems.
- photochemsyn 5y ago
  I feel they're already being gamified, but by people with an inside line to Twitter, i.e. shareholders and advertisers. If you mean something like search engine optimization on Google by random people wanting to get their content on the front page, I believe there are ways to prevent or minimize that. Of course Google has just gone and pumped advertiser content to the top of search rankings...
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    > search engine optimization on Google ... there are ways to prevent or minimize that If that was true, I'd imagine you could get quite a nice payday from Google.
- moduspol 5y ago
  HN's algorithm is open source, right? That's not to say it's never been gamed, but it doesn't seem notably more "gamed" than Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, etc.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
    Gamifying HN doesn't provide anywhere near the return that gamifying Twitter would.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
> And no, multiple posts in threads don't really work for that purpose because of the way those individual posts are distributed elsewhere, without context. I'm reminded of Elon's tweet where he said a second stimulus would not be in the best interest of the people: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286673686821515266 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286673686821515266 People got PISSED...because they conveniently ignored the very next tweet where he said he supports UBI: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286675223434141697 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286675223434141697
- mrtranscendence 5y ago
  Maybe they got pissed because it was still kind of a bad take? The imperfect stimulus you can actually achieve is indeed sometimes better than the UBI that isn't coming anytime soon.
  - syshum 5y ago
    It was not a bad take, the stimulus packages have directly attributed to the massive inflation we have now, despite the Biden Administrations attempt to blame everything on Putin..
    - IX-103 5y ago
      That's unfortunately true, though the the reduced productivity from the pandemic was another major factor. The increase in money supply provided by the stimulus, particularly the portion that went to economic segments with significant remaining marginal utility for the goods and services included in inflation measures (e.g. poor people that haven't been getting enough essentials) likely is a large driver of the initial inflationary pressure. The additional economic inefficiencies from the job-swapping and slow hiring coming out of the pandemic were also major factors. I don't, however, think that one-time stimulus could maintain the current inflation, which is probably due more to the hiring difficulties and natural positive feedback loop that maintains inflationary economies. Of course, if we hadn't diverted so much of the economic gains from the past decades to the wealthy and instead allowed a proportional increase across the economic strata, I expect the inflationary effect of the economic stimulus would have been far less muted (since there would have been much less pent up demand).

interblag 5y ago

There might be some value in opening these algorithms up but, also, the moment you reveal how they work you will immediately start to see them gamified. Aspects of content recommendation/moderation will always be adversarial, and there are many good arguments in favour of some opacity in these types of systems.

photochemsyn 5y ago
I feel they're already being gamified, but by people with an inside line to Twitter, i.e. shareholders and advertisers. If you mean something like search engine optimization on Google by random people wanting to get their content on the front page, I believe there are ways to prevent or minimize that. Of course Google has just gone and pumped advertiser content to the top of search rankings...
- HWR_14 5y ago
  > search engine optimization on Google ... there are ways to prevent or minimize that If that was true, I'd imagine you could get quite a nice payday from Google.
moduspol 5y ago
HN's algorithm is open source, right? That's not to say it's never been gamed, but it doesn't seem notably more "gamed" than Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, etc.
- x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
  Gamifying HN doesn't provide anywhere near the return that gamifying Twitter would.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

> And no, multiple posts in threads don't really work for that purpose because of the way those individual posts are distributed elsewhere, without context. I'm reminded of Elon's tweet where he said a second stimulus would not be in the best interest of the people: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286673686821515266 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286673686821515266 People got PISSED...because they conveniently ignored the very next tweet where he said he supports UBI: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286675223434141697 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286675223434141697

mrtranscendence 5y ago
Maybe they got pissed because it was still kind of a bad take? The imperfect stimulus you can actually achieve is indeed sometimes better than the UBI that isn't coming anytime soon.
- syshum 5y ago
  It was not a bad take, the stimulus packages have directly attributed to the massive inflation we have now, despite the Biden Administrations attempt to blame everything on Putin..
  - IX-103 5y ago
    That's unfortunately true, though the the reduced productivity from the pandemic was another major factor. The increase in money supply provided by the stimulus, particularly the portion that went to economic segments with significant remaining marginal utility for the goods and services included in inflation measures (e.g. poor people that haven't been getting enough essentials) likely is a large driver of the initial inflationary pressure. The additional economic inefficiencies from the job-swapping and slow hiring coming out of the pandemic were also major factors. I don't, however, think that one-time stimulus could maintain the current inflation, which is probably due more to the hiring difficulties and natural positive feedback loop that maintains inflationary economies. Of course, if we hadn't diverted so much of the economic gains from the past decades to the wealthy and instead allowed a proportional increase across the economic strata, I expect the inflationary effect of the economic stimulus would have been far less muted (since there would have been much less pent up demand).