5 ms·

When you are moving in the public sphere - as Musk is doing - you lose certain rights to privacy that nobody John 'Random Person' Smith enjoys.

by esarbe 4y ago

bko 4y ago
So it would be okay to you to list the home address, movement and acquaintances of senators, congressmen, judges, etc? Who writes the rules about "public sphere"? If I donate to a cause that hopes to influence public policy, should I be doxxed? How much money? Does it depend on the cause I'm donating to?
- pacerwpg 4y ago
  If I buy a private jet and use it to fly around the world, people would have access to the same information as they do on Elon Musk. He wants the convenience of having his own jet, that comes with a cost.
  - bko 4y ago
    Let's remove Elon Musk from this. If I buy a [legal private means of transportation] to travel, people should be able to track my whereabouts. Is this limited to private jets? How about private boats? Single engine airplanes? Or is there a price cap? Is a $50k plane allow you to maintain privacy? 100k? What's the cutoff? Should it be inflation adjusted? I'm just trying to understand
    - pacerwpg 4y ago
      My comment was about the known requirements for air travel. You have to register your flight and that information is available. He has other options that would more safely guarantee privacy. If the privacy of your travels is more important to you than the convenience of having a private plane available, then you choose another option.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      > Is this limited to private jets? How about private boats? Single engine airplanes? Or is there a price cap? Is a $50k plane allow you to maintain privacy? 100k? What's the cutoff? Should it be inflation adjusted? I recommend that you read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki%27s_Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki%27s_Wager One does not need to answer literally every single edge case or scenario, to answer other more obvious questions. Elon Musk is a public figure. A random person driving a car is not. And everything in between is a spectrum, and we don't need to know the exact specific cutoff point to know the obvious answers here.
    - majkinetor 4y ago
      How about a spaceship? Should spaceship flights be private? :)
    - esarbe 4y ago
      You cannot remove Elon Musk from the discussion. He is a public figure[0]; the same discussion would not apply to you (I presume) or me (I know). What exactly a 'public figure' is depends on the given legal system. But its pretty clear that is a public figure, by any definition. He's among the most wealthy (some might say; obscenely wealthy) persons on the planet and thus enjoys outrages amounts of social and political leverage. Of course he doesn't enjoy the same rights to privacy as you and me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure
    - baq 4y ago
      both civilian jets and big civilian boats are required to broadcast their position when under power, sometimes also when stationary. so yeah. you can't buy that kind of privacy unless you want a nation state air force on your six, or some kind of a patrol boat in case of a yacht.
- stale2002 4y ago
  > So it would be okay to you to list the home address, movement and acquaintances of senators, congressmen, judges, etc? Yeah probably. Publicly elected official is pretty up there on it being important to have transparency. > If I donate to a cause that hopes to influence public policy, should I be doxxed? No, you shouldn't. > the rules about "public sphere"? The rules are a spectrum. Someone can both believe that it is important for very large public figures to be transparent, and also believe that it goes to far to dox anyone who has donated 1$ to a political cause. And there is no contradiction here. And if you are to imply that there is a contradiction, then you are engaging in Loki's fallacy. No I don't know the exact specific point where someone becomes a public figure. But I do know that Elon Musk is a public figure, and a random person who donated 1$ to the ACLU is not a public figure.
mft_ 4y ago
Geunine question: is, or how, or where is that enshrined in law?
- esarbe 4y ago
  There's a long and healthy discussion about this question in many legal systems. The topic of discussion is the definition of 'public figure'[0] and what that entails. Public figures usually don't enjoy the same right to privacy as other persons. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure

When you are moving in the public sphere - as Musk is doing - you lose certain rights to privacy that nobody John 'Random Person' Smith enjoys.

by esarbe 4y ago

When you are moving in the public sphere - as Musk is doing - you lose certain rights to privacy that nobody John 'Random Person' Smith enjoys.

bko 4y ago

So it would be okay to you to list the home address, movement and acquaintances of senators, congressmen, judges, etc? Who writes the rules about "public sphere"? If I donate to a cause that hopes to influence public policy, should I be doxxed? How much money? Does it depend on the cause I'm donating to?

pacerwpg 4y ago
If I buy a private jet and use it to fly around the world, people would have access to the same information as they do on Elon Musk. He wants the convenience of having his own jet, that comes with a cost.
- bko 4y ago
  Let's remove Elon Musk from this. If I buy a [legal private means of transportation] to travel, people should be able to track my whereabouts. Is this limited to private jets? How about private boats? Single engine airplanes? Or is there a price cap? Is a $50k plane allow you to maintain privacy? 100k? What's the cutoff? Should it be inflation adjusted? I'm just trying to understand
  - pacerwpg 4y ago
    My comment was about the known requirements for air travel. You have to register your flight and that information is available. He has other options that would more safely guarantee privacy. If the privacy of your travels is more important to you than the convenience of having a private plane available, then you choose another option.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    > Is this limited to private jets? How about private boats? Single engine airplanes? Or is there a price cap? Is a $50k plane allow you to maintain privacy? 100k? What's the cutoff? Should it be inflation adjusted? I recommend that you read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki%27s_Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki%27s_Wager One does not need to answer literally every single edge case or scenario, to answer other more obvious questions. Elon Musk is a public figure. A random person driving a car is not. And everything in between is a spectrum, and we don't need to know the exact specific cutoff point to know the obvious answers here.
  - majkinetor 4y ago
    How about a spaceship? Should spaceship flights be private? :)
  - esarbe 4y ago
    You cannot remove Elon Musk from the discussion. He is a public figure[0]; the same discussion would not apply to you (I presume) or me (I know). What exactly a 'public figure' is depends on the given legal system. But its pretty clear that is a public figure, by any definition. He's among the most wealthy (some might say; obscenely wealthy) persons on the planet and thus enjoys outrages amounts of social and political leverage. Of course he doesn't enjoy the same rights to privacy as you and me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure
  - baq 4y ago
    both civilian jets and big civilian boats are required to broadcast their position when under power, sometimes also when stationary. so yeah. you can't buy that kind of privacy unless you want a nation state air force on your six, or some kind of a patrol boat in case of a yacht.
stale2002 4y ago
> So it would be okay to you to list the home address, movement and acquaintances of senators, congressmen, judges, etc? Yeah probably. Publicly elected official is pretty up there on it being important to have transparency. > If I donate to a cause that hopes to influence public policy, should I be doxxed? No, you shouldn't. > the rules about "public sphere"? The rules are a spectrum. Someone can both believe that it is important for very large public figures to be transparent, and also believe that it goes to far to dox anyone who has donated 1$ to a political cause. And there is no contradiction here. And if you are to imply that there is a contradiction, then you are engaging in Loki's fallacy. No I don't know the exact specific point where someone becomes a public figure. But I do know that Elon Musk is a public figure, and a random person who donated 1$ to the ACLU is not a public figure.

mft_ 4y ago

Geunine question: is, or how, or where is that enshrined in law?

esarbe 4y ago
There's a long and healthy discussion about this question in many legal systems. The topic of discussion is the definition of 'public figure'[0] and what that entails. Public figures usually don't enjoy the same right to privacy as other persons. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure