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That particular incident is under intense spotlight, so it will probably not happen and if it happens it will change the course of free speech discussions. I'm

by mrtksn 5y ago

That particular incident is under intense spotlight, so it will probably not happen and if it happens it will change the course of free speech discussions. I'm psyched either way. Instead of a faceless organisation with a CEO who can justify anything as his duty to the shareholders, now we will have a directly responsible figure. If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake.

JaimeThompson 5y ago
> If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake. His past actions show he isn't a believer in free speech and that almost all his principles are transactional. An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back. His beliefs appear to be built on a sand, not rock.
- busymom0 5y ago
  Tesla is a car company, not a speech platform. Not sure why he should have a problems SA holding a % in Tesla? His comments were specifically targeted towards how their prince was opposing selling twitter without holding a vote from the shareholders.
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    I expect people who hold very public positions of specific rights to keep those positions and moral values in mind when making decisions every time they make such decisions, not just when it is best for them.
  - robonerd 5y ago
    Saudi Arabia's genocidal war in Yemen should be enough to make anybody ashamed for having anything to do with the autocratic KSA.
    - busymom0 5y ago
      I mean US is the one which gives arms to SA. US also destroyed Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and so on. No one’s hands are pure when it comes to the military industrial complex.
      - erug 5y ago
        This is the typical "no one is perfect, so beeing bad is also fine" - argument (which I personally disagree)
        busymom0 5y ago
        Not really. Unless you propose that he completely stops doing business with everyone, shuts down spacex and Tesla etc, not sure what’s your point. SA, a major energy country, having a stake in Tesla is a pretty remote thing as compared to their prince having a stake in a speech platform.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  > An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back. what are you even expecting here? he should've called them out for lack of free speech when they owned tesla? was there some instigating event during that time period which he ignored more than every other public figure? (i don't think we expect all public figures to make annual condemnations of every nation that does anything we consider appropriate. do we?) as far as i know, he was snarking at saudia arabia's involvement in twitter because they commented negatively on his buyout proposal.
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    I expect people who says that specific freedoms and/or principles are important to them to let such beliefs guide all their actions not just when it is convenient for them. I expect them to also live under the same sort of rules and regulations they would have the rest of us live under. Being honest and not lying often would be nice too.
- id 5y ago
  On a related note, on the 100th anniversary of the CCP, Elon Musk had this to say: >The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, especially in infrastructure! I encourage people to visit and see for themselves. Source: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1410413958805270533 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1410413958805270533 And never, ever a word about freedom of speech issues in China. We all know why.
  - ergocoder 5y ago
    Why would he need to mention freedom of speech? He is praising the economic growth of China, which is a fact. It did grow a lot. What would he say? "The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, despite lacking freedom of speech"??
    - mwt 5y ago
      It's not a matter of "he must do X every time" but the obvious juxtaposition between two countries that are economic powerhouses with questionable records on free speech: Saudia Arabia gets criticism for for its dubious free speech record and China, seemingly more restrictive on personal liberties overall, gets none. If he has offered any criticisms of the CCP's relationship with free speech, I apologize for missing it. Otherwise, it's hard not to be cynical about people like him that claim to care deeply about freedom of expression while playing up business interests in countries that do not share such a value.
      - ergocoder 5y ago
        But he is praising the economic growth. If he added "free speech", it would've meant that you could achieve good economic growth even without free speech. I'm sure that's not the narrative anyone in the western world wants to go with.
        id 5y ago
        If he truly cared about free speech, he would have criticized the CCP at least once. I did not say he has to criticize them everytime he mentions them.
- ComradePhil 5y ago
  > An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back. Tesla is a public company and anyone can buy stock. What did you expect Elon Musk to do if Saudi billionaires buy stock?
Ar-Curunir 5y ago
> If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake. Hardly; nothing Elon Musk does will turn his fanboys off, and everybody else already has a "meh" opinion of him. There is no risk for him.
dd36 5y ago
He is worried about climate change and promotes bitcoin. He says Netflix is woke without any citations but just had two kids with Grimes. Elon is about making money and good at building support. I don’t mind him buying Twitter per se but I do believe it will distract from his noble pursuits. The former Reddit CEO’s thread nailed it.
- Avicebron 5y ago
  what does the grimes thing have to do with Netflix? I might just be out of the loop
  - dd36 5y ago
    He said Netflix lost subscribers because it was producing woke content. It doesn’t make any sense on its face other than as a way to con certain ideologies. I have Netflix and I consume Black Mirror, Stranger Things, Squid Game, Bojack, etc. Calling Netflix woke is pure virtue signaling. Maybe he’s planning to run for President?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      OK, how are the children he had with Grimes related?
      - dd36 5y ago
        He was with Grimes for years. If woke was a turn off for him, would he have been with Grimes for years let alone had children with her? I think it’s either that he’s upset with Grimes for leaving him and is being anti-woke in response OR he’s up to something else that’s yet to be revealed. I don’t think this virtue signaling matters to getting state legislatures to allow direct Tesla sales. Maybe it does in his mind?
        5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ergocoder 5y ago
> If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake Haha. He falsely accused british diver of being a pedophile on Twitter. Musk doesn't care much about his persona.

by mrtksn 5y ago

JaimeThompson 5y ago

> If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake. His past actions show he isn't a believer in free speech and that almost all his principles are transactional. An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back. His beliefs appear to be built on a sand, not rock.

busymom0 5y ago
Tesla is a car company, not a speech platform. Not sure why he should have a problems SA holding a % in Tesla? His comments were specifically targeted towards how their prince was opposing selling twitter without holding a vote from the shareholders.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  I expect people who hold very public positions of specific rights to keep those positions and moral values in mind when making decisions every time they make such decisions, not just when it is best for them.
- robonerd 5y ago
  Saudi Arabia's genocidal war in Yemen should be enough to make anybody ashamed for having anything to do with the autocratic KSA.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    I mean US is the one which gives arms to SA. US also destroyed Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and so on. No one’s hands are pure when it comes to the military industrial complex.
    - erug 5y ago
      This is the typical "no one is perfect, so beeing bad is also fine" - argument (which I personally disagree)
      - busymom0 5y ago
        Not really. Unless you propose that he completely stops doing business with everyone, shuts down spacex and Tesla etc, not sure what’s your point. SA, a major energy country, having a stake in Tesla is a pretty remote thing as compared to their prince having a stake in a speech platform.
sigstoat 5y ago
> An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back. what are you even expecting here? he should've called them out for lack of free speech when they owned tesla? was there some instigating event during that time period which he ignored more than every other public figure? (i don't think we expect all public figures to make annual condemnations of every nation that does anything we consider appropriate. do we?) as far as i know, he was snarking at saudia arabia's involvement in twitter because they commented negatively on his buyout proposal.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  I expect people who says that specific freedoms and/or principles are important to them to let such beliefs guide all their actions not just when it is convenient for them. I expect them to also live under the same sort of rules and regulations they would have the rest of us live under. Being honest and not lying often would be nice too.
id 5y ago
On a related note, on the 100th anniversary of the CCP, Elon Musk had this to say: >The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, especially in infrastructure! I encourage people to visit and see for themselves. Source: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1410413958805270533 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1410413958805270533 And never, ever a word about freedom of speech issues in China. We all know why.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  Why would he need to mention freedom of speech? He is praising the economic growth of China, which is a fact. It did grow a lot. What would he say? "The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, despite lacking freedom of speech"??
  - mwt 5y ago
    It's not a matter of "he must do X every time" but the obvious juxtaposition between two countries that are economic powerhouses with questionable records on free speech: Saudia Arabia gets criticism for for its dubious free speech record and China, seemingly more restrictive on personal liberties overall, gets none. If he has offered any criticisms of the CCP's relationship with free speech, I apologize for missing it. Otherwise, it's hard not to be cynical about people like him that claim to care deeply about freedom of expression while playing up business interests in countries that do not share such a value.
    - ergocoder 5y ago
      But he is praising the economic growth. If he added "free speech", it would've meant that you could achieve good economic growth even without free speech. I'm sure that's not the narrative anyone in the western world wants to go with.
      - id 5y ago
        If he truly cared about free speech, he would have criticized the CCP at least once. I did not say he has to criticize them everytime he mentions them.
ComradePhil 5y ago
> An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back. Tesla is a public company and anyone can buy stock. What did you expect Elon Musk to do if Saudi billionaires buy stock?

Ar-Curunir 5y ago

> If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake. Hardly; nothing Elon Musk does will turn his fanboys off, and everybody else already has a "meh" opinion of him. There is no risk for him.

dd36 5y ago

He is worried about climate change and promotes bitcoin. He says Netflix is woke without any citations but just had two kids with Grimes. Elon is about making money and good at building support. I don’t mind him buying Twitter per se but I do believe it will distract from his noble pursuits. The former Reddit CEO’s thread nailed it.

Avicebron 5y ago
what does the grimes thing have to do with Netflix? I might just be out of the loop
- dd36 5y ago
  He said Netflix lost subscribers because it was producing woke content. It doesn’t make any sense on its face other than as a way to con certain ideologies. I have Netflix and I consume Black Mirror, Stranger Things, Squid Game, Bojack, etc. Calling Netflix woke is pure virtue signaling. Maybe he’s planning to run for President?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    OK, how are the children he had with Grimes related?
    - dd36 5y ago
      He was with Grimes for years. If woke was a turn off for him, would he have been with Grimes for years let alone had children with her? I think it’s either that he’s upset with Grimes for leaving him and is being anti-woke in response OR he’s up to something else that’s yet to be revealed. I don’t think this virtue signaling matters to getting state legislatures to allow direct Tesla sales. Maybe it does in his mind?
      - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ergocoder 5y ago

> If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake Haha. He falsely accused british diver of being a pedophile on Twitter. Musk doesn't care much about his persona.