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So are you admitting that Elon musk is solely responsible for Tesla’s success? Because whenever Tesla has a huge accomplishment, people always come out of the

So are you admitting that Elon musk is solely responsible for Tesla’s success? Because whenever Tesla has a huge accomplishment, people always come out of the woodwork and claim Elon is Not the founder and all he does is take credit for everyone else’s work.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
He is almost certainly responsible for Tesla not having filed for chapter 11 yet, but they have gotten close a few times. Every time they get close, he does something in the media that raises the stock price by 200% so they can quietly sell shares to cover the shortfall. I personally wouldn't give him credit for the great engineering done at tesla. It seems like he is good at hiring decent people, and when he gets out of their way, great things happen. When he gets involved (like with the absurd touchscreen console, no-LIDAR self-driving, and the "lights-off" factory idea) it goes wrong. Musk is an amazing marketer and he deserves credit for that, but not for engineering work.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  > Every time they get close, he does something in the media that raises the stock price by 200% This is not really the case at all. Why are you just making stuff up? Go look at between 2016 and 2018, by far the closest Tesla came to bankruptcy then at any time sine 2008. So I'm looking at that data and there is no magical 200% stock price raise based on media. What actually happened it Tesla managed to execute and bring a mass market vehicle market successfully. > like with the absurd touchscreen console Man somebody should have told the 1.5 million vehicles they will sell this year for 30% magin how stupid that is. > no-LIDAR self-driving That's why you can now anywhere in the US can jump on a self-driving LIDAR tax and buy a LIDAR self-driving car at your local dealer. > and the "lights-off" factory idea And now Tesla has some of the most advanced factories in the car industry where literally the CEO of VW said that VW was not able to produce vehicles as fast. What an idiot he is ... > Musk is an amazing marketer and he deserves credit for that, but not for engineering work. That is literally the opposite impression you get when you actually investigate anything other then twitter opinion. Pretty much everybody who got to spend any time at Tesla or SpaceX comes away with the opposite impression. Musk literally spends the waste majority of his time in detailed engineering review meetings. Tesla had a gigantic amount of negative press, more then any other company I can think of. But Musk made the company successful with marketing? What are you even talking about, what marketing? His twitter account and a TED interview or something every could of months? The viewer numbers on those things are far to low to explain Tesla value.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    >> where literally the CEO of VW said that VW was not able to produce vehicles as fast Source for that? And not the drone footage of one of Tesla's factories please. >> Tesla had a gigantic amount of negative press But this is still press, isn't it? And it is Musk that gets the negative press, not Tesla.
    - InTheArena 4y ago
      https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-electric-vehicle-10-hours-volkswagen-production-ceo-unable-keep/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-electric-vehicle-10-hours... A lot of people are spouting short-seller crap from 2018. I suggest that they honestly look at where tesla is now, not when they last paid attention.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        From the article: At the nearby Gruenheide factory outside of Berlin, Tesla is currently trucking along and set to achieve the goal of making an electric vehicle in under 10 hours. At this time, Volkswagen’s main Zwickau plant requires 30 hours per vehicle. Diess hopes to reduce that to 20 hours per vehicle by next year. Conclusion: Neither Tesla nor VW are producing EVs in ten hours. And Zwickau is not a dedicated EV plant and needs rebuilding to become one. Interesting that we only get concrete numbers from VW, so. I have to admit, it is funny to see VW, which was the most marketing dependent car maker I know up until Tesla showed up, and Tesla to slug it out in a PR and marketing war! EDIT: Zwickau wasn't a EV plant until 2020.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        Even if you want to make the most pessimistic possible attitude. Tesla went from a company who had never manufactures anything in large quantity, 5 years later they are seriously comparing to VW a company that has been a globally dominate automaker for decades. So look at Tesla in 2017 and say 'Musk is an idiot he thinks he can automate production' and then look at how Tesla produces cars in 2022 and tell me he is an idiot.
- strainer 4y ago
  As far as I have been able to gather he is an engineer of historic significance like Brunel and Stevenson. He does get involved in engineering, and quite evidently "gets involved" way better than any other hands on technology investor alive. Starts up a reusable rocket company after Blue Origin has started with the same basic ambitions - achieves it and remains the only reusable space launch system in the World for 7 years and counting... and is a good way through building a model carrying 150 tonnes to orbit, made out of stainless steel. I cant appreciate how to chalk that exceptional success up to an ability to hire talent that can push him of the way at the right time, but even that alone would be a great gift and demonstrated in multiple super successful technology ventures. Telsa's self driving is while incomplete, also the most capable that has yet been produced or revealed to the world. The idea that Lidar is the secret of the final success is your hunch, I'm inclined to agree with Elon that its a software achievement - it certainly is in humans.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

He is almost certainly responsible for Tesla not having filed for chapter 11 yet, but they have gotten close a few times. Every time they get close, he does something in the media that raises the stock price by 200% so they can quietly sell shares to cover the shortfall. I personally wouldn't give him credit for the great engineering done at tesla. It seems like he is good at hiring decent people, and when he gets out of their way, great things happen. When he gets involved (like with the absurd touchscreen console, no-LIDAR self-driving, and the "lights-off" factory idea) it goes wrong. Musk is an amazing marketer and he deserves credit for that, but not for engineering work.

panick21_ 4y ago
> Every time they get close, he does something in the media that raises the stock price by 200% This is not really the case at all. Why are you just making stuff up? Go look at between 2016 and 2018, by far the closest Tesla came to bankruptcy then at any time sine 2008. So I'm looking at that data and there is no magical 200% stock price raise based on media. What actually happened it Tesla managed to execute and bring a mass market vehicle market successfully. > like with the absurd touchscreen console Man somebody should have told the 1.5 million vehicles they will sell this year for 30% magin how stupid that is. > no-LIDAR self-driving That's why you can now anywhere in the US can jump on a self-driving LIDAR tax and buy a LIDAR self-driving car at your local dealer. > and the "lights-off" factory idea And now Tesla has some of the most advanced factories in the car industry where literally the CEO of VW said that VW was not able to produce vehicles as fast. What an idiot he is ... > Musk is an amazing marketer and he deserves credit for that, but not for engineering work. That is literally the opposite impression you get when you actually investigate anything other then twitter opinion. Pretty much everybody who got to spend any time at Tesla or SpaceX comes away with the opposite impression. Musk literally spends the waste majority of his time in detailed engineering review meetings. Tesla had a gigantic amount of negative press, more then any other company I can think of. But Musk made the company successful with marketing? What are you even talking about, what marketing? His twitter account and a TED interview or something every could of months? The viewer numbers on those things are far to low to explain Tesla value.
- hef19898 4y ago
  >> where literally the CEO of VW said that VW was not able to produce vehicles as fast Source for that? And not the drone footage of one of Tesla's factories please. >> Tesla had a gigantic amount of negative press But this is still press, isn't it? And it is Musk that gets the negative press, not Tesla.
  - InTheArena 4y ago
    https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-electric-vehicle-10-hours-volkswagen-production-ceo-unable-keep/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-electric-vehicle-10-hours... A lot of people are spouting short-seller crap from 2018. I suggest that they honestly look at where tesla is now, not when they last paid attention.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      From the article: At the nearby Gruenheide factory outside of Berlin, Tesla is currently trucking along and set to achieve the goal of making an electric vehicle in under 10 hours. At this time, Volkswagen’s main Zwickau plant requires 30 hours per vehicle. Diess hopes to reduce that to 20 hours per vehicle by next year. Conclusion: Neither Tesla nor VW are producing EVs in ten hours. And Zwickau is not a dedicated EV plant and needs rebuilding to become one. Interesting that we only get concrete numbers from VW, so. I have to admit, it is funny to see VW, which was the most marketing dependent car maker I know up until Tesla showed up, and Tesla to slug it out in a PR and marketing war! EDIT: Zwickau wasn't a EV plant until 2020.
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        Even if you want to make the most pessimistic possible attitude. Tesla went from a company who had never manufactures anything in large quantity, 5 years later they are seriously comparing to VW a company that has been a globally dominate automaker for decades. So look at Tesla in 2017 and say 'Musk is an idiot he thinks he can automate production' and then look at how Tesla produces cars in 2022 and tell me he is an idiot.
strainer 4y ago
As far as I have been able to gather he is an engineer of historic significance like Brunel and Stevenson. He does get involved in engineering, and quite evidently "gets involved" way better than any other hands on technology investor alive. Starts up a reusable rocket company after Blue Origin has started with the same basic ambitions - achieves it and remains the only reusable space launch system in the World for 7 years and counting... and is a good way through building a model carrying 150 tonnes to orbit, made out of stainless steel. I cant appreciate how to chalk that exceptional success up to an ability to hire talent that can push him of the way at the right time, but even that alone would be a great gift and demonstrated in multiple super successful technology ventures. Telsa's self driving is while incomplete, also the most capable that has yet been produced or revealed to the world. The idea that Lidar is the secret of the final success is your hunch, I'm inclined to agree with Elon that its a software achievement - it certainly is in humans.