3 ms·

Yeah I've had this argument in the past. "Kids do best when the parents are married" "OK" "So we must force people to get/stay married for the best outco

by Nursie 5y ago

Yeah I've had this argument in the past. "Kids do best when the parents are married" "OK" "So we must force people to get/stay married for the best outcomes for kids" "Nope, doesn't follow" It's a correlation/causation issue, a gap in the logic that some folks seem blind to. Kids may well do best with a stable family life with married parents, I can well believe it. But that' not to stay that forcing people to remain together creates the same circumstances. What they're often proposing may well make things even worse for families that aren't that stable in the first place. As the child of a family situation where the parents basically agreed to put up with each other and be miserable until the kids were grown up, I feel qualified to say "YMMV" on that one. I certainly did not get an example of a loving, respectful relationship out of the arrangement. I can't say whether it would have been better or worse had they divorced, of course, because I didn't see the alternate universe in which that happened. But I can say it might have been nice if they had been happy, at least some of the time.

lazyier 5y ago
There are good reasons to get divorced and there are bad reasons to get divorced. If kids are going through a divorce for a bad reason, then they suffer. If kids are going through a divorce for a good reason then that still is terrible, but it is better then the alternative. Simply hating or disliking your partner isn't a good reason. "Falling out of love" isn't a good reason either. Especially if you have kids. This is what responsibility means to a functional adult. Lots of times divorces happen just through lack of maturity. Being selfish, not giving their partners a chance, not just taking a break and giving it a couple years to get through differences, etc. People who expect that they can live and love each other like horny 22 year olds until they are 85 are just not having a realistic view of what marriage actually is. They just need to grow up a bit more. There is more than one type of happiness. There is more than one type of love. You don't have to like somebody to love them, etc. However if there is betrayal in the relationship then that is a good reason to get divorced. Things like adultery, abuse, theft, criminal activity, substance abuse, etc. When people are destructive, behaving in an evil manner, and is this is creating significant risks for the family than that is a good reason to get a divorce.
- Nursie 5y ago
  > Simply hating or disliking your partner isn't a good reason It's a **ing great reason, if you hate each other you're probably creating a toxic atmosphere for the kids, and you're giving them a horrible idea of what a relationship should be like. Hating each other is a prime reason people should be getting divorced. Kids shouldn't be brought up in an atmosphere of dislike, mistrust and animosity. Better two houses than one full of ice and eggshells. > This is what responsibility means to a functional adult. Yes, you have a responsibility to the kids, to bring them up well. This doesn't have to mean staying together and being miserable for a couple of decades. That's not good for anyone. Your ideas are likely massively counterproductive.
  - zaphar 5y ago
    I would argue that hate just like love is a choice you make. It isn't something outside of your control like infatuation or lust, no matter what the latest rom-com might portray on the screen. If this hypothesis is correct then splitting up purely because you hate the other person is only necessary because you don't have the will to choose not to hate them. That's a huge oversimplification though. Hatred isn't there in a vacuum. Maybe you just don't have the mental/emotional bandwidth to summon the energy up. And maybe you can't see a way to de-stress enough to get that bandwidth. It's possible that the partner is simply not trying either and that's a very heavy burden to carry alone. The hater may have quite literally run out of steam and can't summon the energy to choose differently. It's a tremendously complicated and nuanced decision. Boiling it down to just I hate them though makes it essentially one individuals fault instead of acknowledging all the reasons it may be better to split up than to continue to harbor that hatred. If you have the emotional capacity to choose to love and respect your partner instead of hating them or a way to regain that capacity then that is overall better than the alternative for the kids and splitting up should be the last resort after trying to deal with the reasons hate sprung up in the first place.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
      >>>>>>>>>>>> Hatred isn't there in a vacuum. Maybe you just don't have the mental/emotional bandwidth to summon the energy up. And maybe you can't see a way to de-stress enough to get that bandwidth. It's possible that the partner is simply not trying either and that's a very heavy burden to carry alone. The hater may have quite literally run out of steam and can't summon the energy to choose differently. You could replace an entire set of marriage counseling/books with this single paragraph, and your message would still be worth a ton more than the lot of them... for anyone really paying attention to what you are saying. Kudos for your eloquence & deep understanding.

by Nursie 5y ago

lazyier 5y ago

There are good reasons to get divorced and there are bad reasons to get divorced. If kids are going through a divorce for a bad reason, then they suffer. If kids are going through a divorce for a good reason then that still is terrible, but it is better then the alternative. Simply hating or disliking your partner isn't a good reason. "Falling out of love" isn't a good reason either. Especially if you have kids. This is what responsibility means to a functional adult. Lots of times divorces happen just through lack of maturity. Being selfish, not giving their partners a chance, not just taking a break and giving it a couple years to get through differences, etc. People who expect that they can live and love each other like horny 22 year olds until they are 85 are just not having a realistic view of what marriage actually is. They just need to grow up a bit more. There is more than one type of happiness. There is more than one type of love. You don't have to like somebody to love them, etc. However if there is betrayal in the relationship then that is a good reason to get divorced. Things like adultery, abuse, theft, criminal activity, substance abuse, etc. When people are destructive, behaving in an evil manner, and is this is creating significant risks for the family than that is a good reason to get a divorce.

Nursie 5y ago
> Simply hating or disliking your partner isn't a good reason It's a **ing great reason, if you hate each other you're probably creating a toxic atmosphere for the kids, and you're giving them a horrible idea of what a relationship should be like. Hating each other is a prime reason people should be getting divorced. Kids shouldn't be brought up in an atmosphere of dislike, mistrust and animosity. Better two houses than one full of ice and eggshells. > This is what responsibility means to a functional adult. Yes, you have a responsibility to the kids, to bring them up well. This doesn't have to mean staying together and being miserable for a couple of decades. That's not good for anyone. Your ideas are likely massively counterproductive.
- zaphar 5y ago
  I would argue that hate just like love is a choice you make. It isn't something outside of your control like infatuation or lust, no matter what the latest rom-com might portray on the screen. If this hypothesis is correct then splitting up purely because you hate the other person is only necessary because you don't have the will to choose not to hate them. That's a huge oversimplification though. Hatred isn't there in a vacuum. Maybe you just don't have the mental/emotional bandwidth to summon the energy up. And maybe you can't see a way to de-stress enough to get that bandwidth. It's possible that the partner is simply not trying either and that's a very heavy burden to carry alone. The hater may have quite literally run out of steam and can't summon the energy to choose differently. It's a tremendously complicated and nuanced decision. Boiling it down to just I hate them though makes it essentially one individuals fault instead of acknowledging all the reasons it may be better to split up than to continue to harbor that hatred. If you have the emotional capacity to choose to love and respect your partner instead of hating them or a way to regain that capacity then that is overall better than the alternative for the kids and splitting up should be the last resort after trying to deal with the reasons hate sprung up in the first place.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Hatred isn't there in a vacuum. Maybe you just don't have the mental/emotional bandwidth to summon the energy up. And maybe you can't see a way to de-stress enough to get that bandwidth. It's possible that the partner is simply not trying either and that's a very heavy burden to carry alone. The hater may have quite literally run out of steam and can't summon the energy to choose differently. You could replace an entire set of marriage counseling/books with this single paragraph, and your message would still be worth a ton more than the lot of them... for anyone really paying attention to what you are saying. Kudos for your eloquence & deep understanding.