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Let me put this in another way: you already purchased a pinephone and a librem in the span of a few years. You already blew up your e-waste quota for the next 1

Let me put this in another way: you already purchased a pinephone and a librem in the span of a few years. You already blew up your e-waste quota for the next 10-15 years, and you don't even have a device that could be considered a daily driver. Meanwhile I have a phone that is based on free software (for all the aspects where it matters) and that works. Today. And which has future potential to be just as free as the librem/pinephone - after all, if the code being developed by Purism is free, it can be adopted by other vendors. A laptop from 12 years ago more likely than not has less memory than a mid-range phone from today, and unless such laptop is your only device for all this time, it has no point in this conversation.

fsflover 5y ago
> and you don't even have a device that could be considered a daily driver I do use it as a daily driver. > unless such laptop is your only device for all this time, it has no point in this conversation It's the only device used by my non-technical relative. But even if it wasn't, the device would serve a purpose and not be another piece of e-waste. > And which has future potential to be just as free You can't upgrade Linux on your phone due to the proprietary drivers. You're stuck with the ancient version. When it's not supported, your device effectively becomes a brick, unless you are going to recompile everything yourself or fine with being hacked.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Even the most hardcore linux enthusiasts that tried the pinephone claim that they can not reliably make calls, have constant crashes and the app ecosystem is limited. If you are okay with not being able to reliably make calls, fine, but don't oversell on the definition of "daily driver". > You can't upgrade Linux on your phone due to the proprietary drivers. Hardware-specific binary blobs don't stop the UBPorts devs to make constant updates to my old BenQ phone. The software part is still up-to-date, but the application catalog is almost non-existent, the hardware is limited (1GB RAM) and the camera is shit. Eventually I want to turn that device into a networked music player, but as a smartphone it didn't last two years. If I manage to get 7 years out of this Fairphone, its ROI will have been unbelievably great, I will gladly buy whatever comes from Fairphone in 2027, and I will try to find another use for this device. Hopefully by then Linux on mobile will have matured, but I don't need to compromise on my actual needs just to please the FOSS-purists.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > If you are okay with not being able to reliably make calls, fine, but don't oversell on the definition of "daily driver" This is an outdated information. The development pace of Pinephone is unprecedented. Even here on HN I saw many recent posts saying that calls and MMS work fine already.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Ok, good to know. Too bad that I needed a phone 10 months ago. Update: reading through https://www.reddit.com/r/pinephone/comments/u6zzyc/how_pinephone_sucks_at_daily_use/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pinephone/comments/u6zzyc/how_pinep... (from 6 days ago) it seems like you are not just overselling hard, you are trying to convince people to switch to something that is absolutely not ready for general consumption. You do realize that if your goal is to get more people to adopt FOSS, your approach is more harmful than beneficial? Don't make promises that you can not keep, it will burn whatever goodwill people might have and it ends up convincing them Linux is never going to be for them.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        Yes, it's not ready for general consumption. Mainly due to the battery life (I use two batteries) and sluggishness (it's fast if you use non-mainstream Sxmo). For Librem 5 (which I also preordered) both these points are fine (well, the battery is still worse than for Android). Note that we are not on Reddit but on HN. Is its audience ordinary people? My goal is to bring more technical people to GNU/Linux phones.
        rglullis 5y ago
        HN audience is large and diverse enough to the point that it makes no sense to think as some homogeneous group of people who are interested in tinkering with their phones. By making absurd claims about the feasibility of the Pinephone as a daily driver, you are doing a disservice to your own community. Also, is your goal to get people to use GNU/Linux phones or is it to maximize the overall adoption of Free Software? The former requires a radical shift in consumer behavior and will be unlikely to happen, the latter can be done in gradual steps with a much higher chance of success. Think of it this way: if you manage to upset me, who is pretty much in favor of F/LOSS, imagine how many bridges you burned with those "on the other side"?

fsflover 5y ago

> and you don't even have a device that could be considered a daily driver I do use it as a daily driver. > unless such laptop is your only device for all this time, it has no point in this conversation It's the only device used by my non-technical relative. But even if it wasn't, the device would serve a purpose and not be another piece of e-waste. > And which has future potential to be just as free You can't upgrade Linux on your phone due to the proprietary drivers. You're stuck with the ancient version. When it's not supported, your device effectively becomes a brick, unless you are going to recompile everything yourself or fine with being hacked.

rglullis 5y ago
Even the most hardcore linux enthusiasts that tried the pinephone claim that they can not reliably make calls, have constant crashes and the app ecosystem is limited. If you are okay with not being able to reliably make calls, fine, but don't oversell on the definition of "daily driver". > You can't upgrade Linux on your phone due to the proprietary drivers. Hardware-specific binary blobs don't stop the UBPorts devs to make constant updates to my old BenQ phone. The software part is still up-to-date, but the application catalog is almost non-existent, the hardware is limited (1GB RAM) and the camera is shit. Eventually I want to turn that device into a networked music player, but as a smartphone it didn't last two years. If I manage to get 7 years out of this Fairphone, its ROI will have been unbelievably great, I will gladly buy whatever comes from Fairphone in 2027, and I will try to find another use for this device. Hopefully by then Linux on mobile will have matured, but I don't need to compromise on my actual needs just to please the FOSS-purists.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > If you are okay with not being able to reliably make calls, fine, but don't oversell on the definition of "daily driver" This is an outdated information. The development pace of Pinephone is unprecedented. Even here on HN I saw many recent posts saying that calls and MMS work fine already.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Ok, good to know. Too bad that I needed a phone 10 months ago. Update: reading through https://www.reddit.com/r/pinephone/comments/u6zzyc/how_pinephone_sucks_at_daily_use/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pinephone/comments/u6zzyc/how_pinep... (from 6 days ago) it seems like you are not just overselling hard, you are trying to convince people to switch to something that is absolutely not ready for general consumption. You do realize that if your goal is to get more people to adopt FOSS, your approach is more harmful than beneficial? Don't make promises that you can not keep, it will burn whatever goodwill people might have and it ends up convincing them Linux is never going to be for them.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      Yes, it's not ready for general consumption. Mainly due to the battery life (I use two batteries) and sluggishness (it's fast if you use non-mainstream Sxmo). For Librem 5 (which I also preordered) both these points are fine (well, the battery is still worse than for Android). Note that we are not on Reddit but on HN. Is its audience ordinary people? My goal is to bring more technical people to GNU/Linux phones.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        HN audience is large and diverse enough to the point that it makes no sense to think as some homogeneous group of people who are interested in tinkering with their phones. By making absurd claims about the feasibility of the Pinephone as a daily driver, you are doing a disservice to your own community. Also, is your goal to get people to use GNU/Linux phones or is it to maximize the overall adoption of Free Software? The former requires a radical shift in consumer behavior and will be unlikely to happen, the latter can be done in gradual steps with a much higher chance of success. Think of it this way: if you manage to upset me, who is pretty much in favor of F/LOSS, imagine how many bridges you burned with those "on the other side"?