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> This is a very bitter /r/unitedkingdom-style comment, I don't expect to see things like this on HN. most posts about the UK now on HN turn into a /r/unitedki

> This is a very bitter /r/unitedkingdom-style comment, I don't expect to see things like this on HN. most posts about the UK now on HN turn into a /r/unitedkingdom whingefest about government policy mostly unrelated to the topic can you imagine if every post about something in the US was the same? mods need to step it up

adwww 5y ago
Or maybe it's just the common viewpoint among most computer-literate, non-retired Brits.
- Veen 5y ago
  It tends to be more popular among middle class people, and much less popular among working class people who actually bear the brunt of uncontrolled immigration. It's not the middle classes who are struggling to find social housing or any housing at all.
  - klelatti 5y ago
    > uncontrolled immigration Obviously not true. Anyway blaming government failures such as social housing on immigration is a well known trick. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-crisis-in-uk-social-housing-happen https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-...
    - Veen 5y ago
      If anyone who can get in a boat in France can migrate to the UK, that is, by definition, uncontrolled. What you call "a well known trick" is, in fact, a perfectly reasonable argument, whatever the Guardian wants to say about it. It is fact that we have a massive shortfall in social housing. What caused that shortfall is largely irrelevant.
      - klelatti 5y ago
        There are controls on immigration therefore it is not uncontrolled. The fact that a few desperate people are prepared to risk their lives in the Channel doesn't make it uncontrolled. "Not building enough social housing is largely irrelevant to dealing with the social housing crisis." Hmmm.
        88 5y ago
        How exactly are illegal entries into the UK via small boats controlled? If this is controlled, why has the number of people arriving in this manner grown enormously in recent years? Also way to misrepresent the other commenter’s perfectly valid point.
        n4r9 5y ago
        If Border Force intercepts a boat, they bring them ashore and hold the arrivals in short-term detentions centres. The vast majority of these people then apply for asylum, and the majority of claims are accepted. If they do not claim asylum or are refused, they face prosecution or removal. The proportion of crossings by boat has increased relative to other means (air/lorries) because the technology for detecting undocumented entries via those other means has improved. All this is easily looked up. The argument that "some people have done this therefore it is uncontrolled" is absurd.
        88 5y ago
        The fact many (note: not all) of those crossing via this means are intercepted and processed through an administrative process does not make it controlled migration.
        n4r9 5y ago
        There is a process in place to deport illegal immigrants and thousands are forcibly returned every year.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    > who actually bear the brunt of uncontrolled immigration Any kind of source would be useful for such claims. > It's not the middle classes who are struggling to find social housing or any housing at all. I guess it depends on your definition of middle class. Middle class is currently the part that's being squeezed, way more than the poor (you can't get money from someone who hasn't any). So yeah, the middle class does get by marginally better than the poor (who often live in Dickensian conditions, true). But bringing down the middle class is not going to solve any of this. On the contrary, the middle class is what you need to develop to get a healthy democracy. The problem is the long tail of high incomes, roughly from the 8th decile up. Including the well-to-do conservatives who fan the flames and keep spreading the idea that the culprits are everybody but themselves.
- blibble 5y ago
  presumably computer-literate people are more than capable of finding an appropriate place to soapbox their political views.

adwww 5y ago

Or maybe it's just the common viewpoint among most computer-literate, non-retired Brits.

Veen 5y ago
It tends to be more popular among middle class people, and much less popular among working class people who actually bear the brunt of uncontrolled immigration. It's not the middle classes who are struggling to find social housing or any housing at all.
- klelatti 5y ago
  > uncontrolled immigration Obviously not true. Anyway blaming government failures such as social housing on immigration is a well known trick. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-crisis-in-uk-social-housing-happen https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-...
  - Veen 5y ago
    If anyone who can get in a boat in France can migrate to the UK, that is, by definition, uncontrolled. What you call "a well known trick" is, in fact, a perfectly reasonable argument, whatever the Guardian wants to say about it. It is fact that we have a massive shortfall in social housing. What caused that shortfall is largely irrelevant.
    - klelatti 5y ago
      There are controls on immigration therefore it is not uncontrolled. The fact that a few desperate people are prepared to risk their lives in the Channel doesn't make it uncontrolled. "Not building enough social housing is largely irrelevant to dealing with the social housing crisis." Hmmm.
      - 88 5y ago
        How exactly are illegal entries into the UK via small boats controlled? If this is controlled, why has the number of people arriving in this manner grown enormously in recent years? Also way to misrepresent the other commenter’s perfectly valid point.
        n4r9 5y ago
        If Border Force intercepts a boat, they bring them ashore and hold the arrivals in short-term detentions centres. The vast majority of these people then apply for asylum, and the majority of claims are accepted. If they do not claim asylum or are refused, they face prosecution or removal. The proportion of crossings by boat has increased relative to other means (air/lorries) because the technology for detecting undocumented entries via those other means has improved. All this is easily looked up. The argument that "some people have done this therefore it is uncontrolled" is absurd.
        88 5y ago
        The fact many (note: not all) of those crossing via this means are intercepted and processed through an administrative process does not make it controlled migration.
        n4r9 5y ago
        There is a process in place to deport illegal immigrants and thousands are forcibly returned every year.
- kergonath 5y ago
  > who actually bear the brunt of uncontrolled immigration Any kind of source would be useful for such claims. > It's not the middle classes who are struggling to find social housing or any housing at all. I guess it depends on your definition of middle class. Middle class is currently the part that's being squeezed, way more than the poor (you can't get money from someone who hasn't any). So yeah, the middle class does get by marginally better than the poor (who often live in Dickensian conditions, true). But bringing down the middle class is not going to solve any of this. On the contrary, the middle class is what you need to develop to get a healthy democracy. The problem is the long tail of high incomes, roughly from the 8th decile up. Including the well-to-do conservatives who fan the flames and keep spreading the idea that the culprits are everybody but themselves.
blibble 5y ago
presumably computer-literate people are more than capable of finding an appropriate place to soapbox their political views.