5 ms·

> VS, Eclipse, Netbeans, Delphi, C++ Builder, KDevelop, QtCreator,... Speak for yourself. Editing C# is much better in Rider than VStudio. Eclipse was a compe

by Ygg2 5y ago

> VS, Eclipse, Netbeans, Delphi, C++ Builder, KDevelop, QtCreator,... Speak for yourself. Editing C# is much better in Rider than VStudio. Eclipse was a competitior, but I dread having to use it for anything nowadays. CLion just doesn't work correctly, yet. For Rust VS Code is better, but only because of awesome rust-analyzer plugin.

pjmlp 5y ago
Not keeping up with the times with VS? Eclipse is still my get to go, InteliJ wants me to buy Clion + InteliJ licenses for features Eclipse does out of the box. VSCode isn't an IDE, plus Rust is the new kid in town.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  > VSCode isn't an IDE Add enough plugins and it will be. Rust being new is one part, other part is that Jetbrains really insists on their plugins vs LSP. I get Rust errors in Clion on programs that run normally. Bugs that rust-analyzer/cargo don't report.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    Bolting 200 things to a bicycle doesn't make it a truck, and no amount of addons can turn VS Code into an IDE. The I means Integrated, and VS Code with plugins and LSPs is anything but.
    - folkrav 5y ago
      It has a terminal, debugger, completion, git/source control clients, refactoring tools (more or less depending on the language, obviously), extensions... At what point does it become integrated enough? It's not a bicycle to begin with, it's a small car.
      - kuschku 5y ago
        It becomes integrated when the tool internally works on an AST of a language and not on a textual buffer. That’s what makes it an IDE, that the basic text editing features and the compiler are both integrated. This allows significantly more functionality than any type of LSP + editor ever can. The refactoring functionality is what makes an IDE into an IDE. I use every single feature of IntelliJ every day, and I actually would prefer even more refactoring functionality. LSPs can’t come close to this. LSPs can compete with classic Visual Studio, but there’s a reason JetBrains started with ReSharper, replacing the refactoring engine of Visual Studio.
        folkrav 5y ago
        > That’s what makes it an IDE, that the basic text editing features and the compiler are both integrated. Rather arbitrary distinction that doesn't even hold true for all IDEs out there.
        saturn_vk 5y ago
        By this definition neovim is an ide just because it has native support for treesitter. Yet I don't think it is one
        kuschku 5y ago
        Can you operate on AST elements? e.g., if you move a selected line of text up/down, does it move the text itself or does it move the underlying AST elements and adapt the text to the changed AST? Can you select a function and drag and drop it into a different file or class and have the code automatically adapt, add/remove parameters, imports, etc as needed? If you have two functions called doA, in different modules, and you have a file that imports doA from module 1, and you copy that doA call and paste it in a new file, does the IDE correctly add the import as well, or does it just paste the text and you have to import manually?
- nsonha 5y ago
  hey I recognize your over-attached tone and username, do you ever write comment about things rather than your lame preference? Last I remember you were making some point about Kotlin being created to sell intelij.
  - Ygg2 5y ago
    [citation needed] I don't remember having any opinions on Kotlin. I've never seen it use in production, just tales. You sure, you don't have me confused for someone else.
    - nsonha 5y ago
      it seems to me I replied to the right comment, which is not yours.
      - Ygg2 5y ago
        Yeah, easy to lose track of threads on mobile.
  - matklad 5y ago
    As far as I can tell, the point about Kotlin is correct.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Do you want a refresher from JetBrains blog or do you manage to find it yourself?
croes 5y ago
Just because editing C# in Rider is better than in VS doesn't mean it isn't decent in VC
- Ygg2 5y ago
  It's not about being decent, it's about being straight up better. It does get a bit sluggish, but that's more on Java being memory hungry.
  - croes 5y ago
    But parent was about decent >> To get a decent IDE support, you either used a language supported by JetBrains (IntelliJ or ReSharper) or. >VS, Eclipse, Netbeans, Delphi, C++ Builder, KDevelop, QtCreator,...
  - erikbye 5y ago
    What exactly is better in Rider?
    - Ygg2 5y ago
      Autocomplete, refactoring, UI, support for newest features, etc. Anecdata time. I was working on codegen in C#. So I wrote the codegen in netstandard2.1. That is until a team member that used Visual Studio complained it didn't work for him. So I had to rewrite the thing in netstandard2.0 (shudder) and it worked. I haven't seen anyone that wanted to go back to VS after using Rider. I did use it for a while, but after Rider it just seemed like an inferior version.
      - erikbye 5y ago
        Can you be more specific? How is autocomplete better in Rider? Faster coming up with suggestions? More helpful suggestions? IntelliSense and IntelliCode in latest VS versions is pretty decent... Performance in VS has improved since going 64-bit. What refactorings are unique to Rider? UI? What features? Your statements smells of preference and sound vague.
madeofpalk 5y ago
As someone who does web dev in VS Code, and on the side does C# in Visual Studio, I'm always astonished at just how slow and painful typing code is Visual Studio, but then impressed by how far ahead of VSCode its refactoring features are.
- renox 5y ago
  There's the same trade off for C++: if you are very patient you can use CLion and enjoy great completion or if like me you're not a zen monk you use VSCode as a text editor with its 'not so great' IDE features (usually grep works better than VSCode for finding things). Of course it depends on the size of the project, the plugin used for VSCode (I'm using Microsoft Intellisense).

by Ygg2 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago

Not keeping up with the times with VS? Eclipse is still my get to go, InteliJ wants me to buy Clion + InteliJ licenses for features Eclipse does out of the box. VSCode isn't an IDE, plus Rust is the new kid in town.

Ygg2 5y ago
> VSCode isn't an IDE Add enough plugins and it will be. Rust being new is one part, other part is that Jetbrains really insists on their plugins vs LSP. I get Rust errors in Clion on programs that run normally. Bugs that rust-analyzer/cargo don't report.
- kuschku 5y ago
  Bolting 200 things to a bicycle doesn't make it a truck, and no amount of addons can turn VS Code into an IDE. The I means Integrated, and VS Code with plugins and LSPs is anything but.
  - folkrav 5y ago
    It has a terminal, debugger, completion, git/source control clients, refactoring tools (more or less depending on the language, obviously), extensions... At what point does it become integrated enough? It's not a bicycle to begin with, it's a small car.
    - kuschku 5y ago
      It becomes integrated when the tool internally works on an AST of a language and not on a textual buffer. That’s what makes it an IDE, that the basic text editing features and the compiler are both integrated. This allows significantly more functionality than any type of LSP + editor ever can. The refactoring functionality is what makes an IDE into an IDE. I use every single feature of IntelliJ every day, and I actually would prefer even more refactoring functionality. LSPs can’t come close to this. LSPs can compete with classic Visual Studio, but there’s a reason JetBrains started with ReSharper, replacing the refactoring engine of Visual Studio.
      - folkrav 5y ago
        > That’s what makes it an IDE, that the basic text editing features and the compiler are both integrated. Rather arbitrary distinction that doesn't even hold true for all IDEs out there.
      - saturn_vk 5y ago
        By this definition neovim is an ide just because it has native support for treesitter. Yet I don't think it is one
        kuschku 5y ago
        Can you operate on AST elements? e.g., if you move a selected line of text up/down, does it move the text itself or does it move the underlying AST elements and adapt the text to the changed AST? Can you select a function and drag and drop it into a different file or class and have the code automatically adapt, add/remove parameters, imports, etc as needed? If you have two functions called doA, in different modules, and you have a file that imports doA from module 1, and you copy that doA call and paste it in a new file, does the IDE correctly add the import as well, or does it just paste the text and you have to import manually?
nsonha 5y ago
hey I recognize your over-attached tone and username, do you ever write comment about things rather than your lame preference? Last I remember you were making some point about Kotlin being created to sell intelij.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  [citation needed] I don't remember having any opinions on Kotlin. I've never seen it use in production, just tales. You sure, you don't have me confused for someone else.
  - nsonha 5y ago
    it seems to me I replied to the right comment, which is not yours.
    - Ygg2 5y ago
      Yeah, easy to lose track of threads on mobile.
- matklad 5y ago
  As far as I can tell, the point about Kotlin is correct.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Do you want a refresher from JetBrains blog or do you manage to find it yourself?

croes 5y ago

Just because editing C# in Rider is better than in VS doesn't mean it isn't decent in VC

Ygg2 5y ago
It's not about being decent, it's about being straight up better. It does get a bit sluggish, but that's more on Java being memory hungry.
- croes 5y ago
  But parent was about decent >> To get a decent IDE support, you either used a language supported by JetBrains (IntelliJ or ReSharper) or. >VS, Eclipse, Netbeans, Delphi, C++ Builder, KDevelop, QtCreator,...
- erikbye 5y ago
  What exactly is better in Rider?
  - Ygg2 5y ago
    Autocomplete, refactoring, UI, support for newest features, etc. Anecdata time. I was working on codegen in C#. So I wrote the codegen in netstandard2.1. That is until a team member that used Visual Studio complained it didn't work for him. So I had to rewrite the thing in netstandard2.0 (shudder) and it worked. I haven't seen anyone that wanted to go back to VS after using Rider. I did use it for a while, but after Rider it just seemed like an inferior version.
    - erikbye 5y ago
      Can you be more specific? How is autocomplete better in Rider? Faster coming up with suggestions? More helpful suggestions? IntelliSense and IntelliCode in latest VS versions is pretty decent... Performance in VS has improved since going 64-bit. What refactorings are unique to Rider? UI? What features? Your statements smells of preference and sound vague.

madeofpalk 5y ago

As someone who does web dev in VS Code, and on the side does C# in Visual Studio, I'm always astonished at just how slow and painful typing code is Visual Studio, but then impressed by how far ahead of VSCode its refactoring features are.

renox 5y ago
There's the same trade off for C++: if you are very patient you can use CLion and enjoy great completion or if like me you're not a zen monk you use VSCode as a text editor with its 'not so great' IDE features (usually grep works better than VSCode for finding things). Of course it depends on the size of the project, the plugin used for VSCode (I'm using Microsoft Intellisense).