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basisword 4y ago
The government’s plan has faced objections from across the political spectrum. It’s widely accepted that it’s highly immoral. The people that agree with it are by far a minority.
- Veen 4y ago
  It's unpopular with left-leaning journalists, lawyers, and politicians. Polls are mixed about whether it's popular with the general public, but that's what elections are for.
Jaruzel 4y ago
> In the plans, single men who arrive illegally in boats or lorries will be sent to Rwanda Which depending on which organisation you speak to, may or may not be legal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61122241 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61122241 Personally, I'm embarrassed at how xenophobic and closed-minded my country has become.
- adwww 4y ago
  Also crossing the channel for the purpose of claiming asylum is not actually illegal.
Traster 4y ago
To claim asylum in the UK you must be physically present in the UK. Which means that functionally, there are no "proper channels" through which the vast majority of these asylum seekers could apply they have to cross the UK borders illegally first. But that wasn't the point of my comment, I was pointing out that this policy is only in place because the government has completely failed to prevent these border crossings and this policy is essentially just them giving up on trying. I would be quite surprised if the policy ever actually comes into effect given the timing of its announcement before the local elections.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I mean if the UK were to provide transportation into the UK they wouldn't arrive, as you call it, "illegaly". How do you seek asylum in the UK through proper channels, in your opinion? That said, it reminds me of the EU paying Libya and Turkey to keep migrants/asylum seekers from crossing over to Europe. I'm not convinced the migrants are being treated fairly. The "fix" for reducing migration isn't to raise up walls and barriers, but to help improve circumstances in the country of origins; improve stability and economic outlook and the like. That said, another approach to reduce migration to the UK seems to be to make it less attractive.
- jl6 4y ago
  > The "fix" for reducing migration isn't to raise up walls and barriers, but to help improve circumstances in the country of origins Migrants are typically among the most motivated people in the source country. They are the ones that can get it together to organize transport, travel a great distance, maybe learn a new language… altogether a great effort. Perhaps one way to improve circumstances in the country of origin would be for those people to stay at home and put their effort into their own country. But it turns out we actually like the economic consequences of having those type of immigrants in our country. They are, by and large, hard working and skilled. And so we continue to brain-drain the countries of origin, at their expense.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
altacc 4y ago
Without looking it up, are you aware of and can you identify the "proper channels" for claiming asylum in the UK? I ask as most people who claim asylum seekers should do so "properly & legally" are unable to describe what that process is and I find it odd that people keep referring to a process they have no idea about.
- maxehmookau 4y ago
  TalkRadio in the UK has a lot to answer for. Self-important blowhards spouting this nonsense day in and day out but, like you say, when you probe even slightly in to the detail, there's nothing.
  - altacc 4y ago
    I used to work in an office where colleagues insisted on listening to radio phone-ins and my choice was either headphones or deep hatred & anger towards the ignorant callers. Usual choice was headphones, better for the stress levels!
blibble 4y ago
> This is a very bitter /r/unitedkingdom-style comment, I don't expect to see things like this on HN. most posts about the UK now on HN turn into a /r/unitedkingdom whingefest about government policy mostly unrelated to the topic can you imagine if every post about something in the US was the same? mods need to step it up
- adwww 4y ago
  Or maybe it's just the common viewpoint among most computer-literate, non-retired Brits.
  - Veen 4y ago
    It tends to be more popular among middle class people, and much less popular among working class people who actually bear the brunt of uncontrolled immigration. It's not the middle classes who are struggling to find social housing or any housing at all.
    - klelatti 4y ago
      > uncontrolled immigration Obviously not true. Anyway blaming government failures such as social housing on immigration is a well known trick. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-crisis-in-uk-social-housing-happen https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-...
      - Veen 4y ago
        If anyone who can get in a boat in France can migrate to the UK, that is, by definition, uncontrolled. What you call "a well known trick" is, in fact, a perfectly reasonable argument, whatever the Guardian wants to say about it. It is fact that we have a massive shortfall in social housing. What caused that shortfall is largely irrelevant.
        klelatti 4y ago
        There are controls on immigration therefore it is not uncontrolled. The fact that a few desperate people are prepared to risk their lives in the Channel doesn't make it uncontrolled. "Not building enough social housing is largely irrelevant to dealing with the social housing crisis." Hmmm.

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The government’s plan has faced objections from across the political spectrum. It’s widely accepted that it’s highly immoral. The people that agree with it are by far a minority.

Veen 4y ago
It's unpopular with left-leaning journalists, lawyers, and politicians. Polls are mixed about whether it's popular with the general public, but that's what elections are for.

Jaruzel 4y ago

> In the plans, single men who arrive illegally in boats or lorries will be sent to Rwanda Which depending on which organisation you speak to, may or may not be legal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61122241 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61122241 Personally, I'm embarrassed at how xenophobic and closed-minded my country has become.

adwww 4y ago
Also crossing the channel for the purpose of claiming asylum is not actually illegal.

Traster 4y ago

To claim asylum in the UK you must be physically present in the UK. Which means that functionally, there are no "proper channels" through which the vast majority of these asylum seekers could apply they have to cross the UK borders illegally first. But that wasn't the point of my comment, I was pointing out that this policy is only in place because the government has completely failed to prevent these border crossings and this policy is essentially just them giving up on trying. I would be quite surprised if the policy ever actually comes into effect given the timing of its announcement before the local elections.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

I mean if the UK were to provide transportation into the UK they wouldn't arrive, as you call it, "illegaly". How do you seek asylum in the UK through proper channels, in your opinion? That said, it reminds me of the EU paying Libya and Turkey to keep migrants/asylum seekers from crossing over to Europe. I'm not convinced the migrants are being treated fairly. The "fix" for reducing migration isn't to raise up walls and barriers, but to help improve circumstances in the country of origins; improve stability and economic outlook and the like. That said, another approach to reduce migration to the UK seems to be to make it less attractive.

jl6 4y ago
> The "fix" for reducing migration isn't to raise up walls and barriers, but to help improve circumstances in the country of origins Migrants are typically among the most motivated people in the source country. They are the ones that can get it together to organize transport, travel a great distance, maybe learn a new language… altogether a great effort. Perhaps one way to improve circumstances in the country of origin would be for those people to stay at home and put their effort into their own country. But it turns out we actually like the economic consequences of having those type of immigrants in our country. They are, by and large, hard working and skilled. And so we continue to brain-drain the countries of origin, at their expense.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

altacc 4y ago

Without looking it up, are you aware of and can you identify the "proper channels" for claiming asylum in the UK? I ask as most people who claim asylum seekers should do so "properly & legally" are unable to describe what that process is and I find it odd that people keep referring to a process they have no idea about.

maxehmookau 4y ago
TalkRadio in the UK has a lot to answer for. Self-important blowhards spouting this nonsense day in and day out but, like you say, when you probe even slightly in to the detail, there's nothing.
- altacc 4y ago
  I used to work in an office where colleagues insisted on listening to radio phone-ins and my choice was either headphones or deep hatred & anger towards the ignorant callers. Usual choice was headphones, better for the stress levels!

blibble 4y ago

> This is a very bitter /r/unitedkingdom-style comment, I don't expect to see things like this on HN. most posts about the UK now on HN turn into a /r/unitedkingdom whingefest about government policy mostly unrelated to the topic can you imagine if every post about something in the US was the same? mods need to step it up

adwww 4y ago
Or maybe it's just the common viewpoint among most computer-literate, non-retired Brits.
- Veen 4y ago
  It tends to be more popular among middle class people, and much less popular among working class people who actually bear the brunt of uncontrolled immigration. It's not the middle classes who are struggling to find social housing or any housing at all.
  - klelatti 4y ago
    > uncontrolled immigration Obviously not true. Anyway blaming government failures such as social housing on immigration is a well known trick. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-crisis-in-uk-social-housing-happen https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/how-did-the-...
    - Veen 4y ago
      If anyone who can get in a boat in France can migrate to the UK, that is, by definition, uncontrolled. What you call "a well known trick" is, in fact, a perfectly reasonable argument, whatever the Guardian wants to say about it. It is fact that we have a massive shortfall in social housing. What caused that shortfall is largely irrelevant.
      - klelatti 4y ago
        There are controls on immigration therefore it is not uncontrolled. The fact that a few desperate people are prepared to risk their lives in the Channel doesn't make it uncontrolled. "Not building enough social housing is largely irrelevant to dealing with the social housing crisis." Hmmm.