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The chutzpah of your armchair analysis! You just called the most successful businessman in the world an 'utterly inept businessman'. Literally the wealthiest

The chutzpah of your armchair analysis! You just called the most successful businessman in the world an 'utterly inept businessman'. Literally the wealthiest person in the world and all achieved through business success! Defined and successfully delivering on multiple new markets, with a string of serial successes.

hef19898 4y ago
Which new markets, after paypal? Cars? Rockets that go into space? Solar on roofs? Things carrying people through tunnels? And in all the successful cases he had massive contributions by others. He provided the money, which is huge in itself. The actual work eas done by others, and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so, and that his fanboys believe every single of his claims, truely makes him the Steve Jobs of 2020s we deserve.
- shafyy 4y ago
  > The actual work eas done by others, and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so This is not true. He often mentions and emphasizes that the success is the work of his great teams. He also publicly acknowledged that he failed to do so in the past, but he is certainly doing it now.
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  >Which new markets, after paypal? Cars? Rockets that go into space? Yes and yes >The actual work eas done by others, and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so, Give me one instance where Musk denies the work of his friends and colleagues at SpaceX and Tesla please, because this post reek of bad sentiment and an awful take.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    I never said he denies it, did I? I sadi, quote, "and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so". To elaborate, Musk takes all the line light in the public for himself, he gets all the hype. Shotwell gets a little bit of it, and that's it then.
    - EricE 4y ago
      Have you actually ever watched an interview with him or just hot takes from Reddit? Because if you had ever watched a full, unedited interview with him you’d be too embarrassed to post what you just did. He’s a pretty humble guy. One of the best interviews with him was the one he did with the Babylon Bee - you should watch it; it’s up on Youtube.
- tomp 4y ago
  > The actual work eas done by others, Boeing probably has more and better engineers than SpaceX. Same with Toyota/Volkswagen compared to Tesla. Yet these companies simply cannot innovate. Talent (ability to do good work) is pointless without good leadership. > the fact the Musk fails to properly say so This is a lie. https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1517072753475600385 https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/15170727534756003... > The failures are mine, the successes belong to others
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Toyota pioneered hybrid vehicles, Boeing got us the first composite fuselage for commercial airliners. I call that innovation. VW is pushing heavily towards EVs, and those actually are in the price range Tesla fails to achieve for its Model 3. It is a different kind of innovation so, only considering "disruptuon" as innovation is quite short sighted so. Espiecially since Christensen himself differentiates between disruptive and sustaining (?) innovation.
    - EricE 4y ago
      Is Boeing in space with SpaceX? Would VW even care about EVs without Tesla? Would they lie about them like they did their diesel emissions? lol - holding up VW as something to emulate! GM had a pretty good EV in the 80’s - then killed it. Literally - never sold them, only leased them and forced owners to cough them back up and destroyed them. I have zero interest in owning a Tesla - their stance on right to repair and their customer service sucks, but without them there wouldn’t be near the activity around EVs as there is now. Like him or not, Elon pretty much single handedly embarrassed the rest of the auto industry to have to take EVs seriously by proving that yes, EVs can be not only useful but cool.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        SpaceX isn't the only company shooting stuff into orbit. And VW isn't the only manufacturer pushing into EVss. I used those two because the were braught by OP. And VW and others would care about EVs because of the general awareness about climate change.
McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago
> You just called the most successful businessman in the world an 'utterly inept businessman'. Success is measured using market share not market cap or net worth of the CEO. Tesla accounted for 1.3% of all cars sold in the world during 2021. Stock price, net worth and number of synchopants getting on their knees are like a voting machine, market share is a weighting machine. When you use the right metric it becomes crystal clear who are te guys setting records at the weighting machine. It's the usual quiet ones: Buffett, Gates, Brin&Page, Tim Cook. Not to mention the GOAT. Rockefeller left Standard Oil at #1 in market share and here we are in 2022 the companies which were under the umbrella of Standard Oil are still at #1.
- hackerfromthefu 4y ago
  No you can't blithely choose which measure of success - it actually doesn't have a single measure. Your measure of market share is a reasonable one, as are the two I proposed being profit and creating and succeeding in entirely new markets. They are new markets too, it's not rockets, it's reusable rockets at incredibly lower cost to orbit and new capacities to previous ones, it's space based communication networks that are again a serious generational leap ahead of whatever was before, it's the emergence of a serious replacement for ICE vehicles. In all these markets, his companies are the only market share! He owns these markets, because he created them, and is multiple years ahead of the rest of the world's highly motivated competitors. I'm not detracting from the successes of the other guys you mentioned. But Musk can very reasonably be called the world's most successful businessman at the moment on multiple metrics. It might be a competition between Musk and others, but it's the opposite utterly inept, which was the point - trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the OP per HN guidelines, while also keeping the discussion grounded in rational sanity.
  - McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago
    OP is right. All the stuff you mentioned brings zero benefits to the consumer. The consumer wants a steady improvement in their quality of life in the next 3 months or less, and then you go from there hopefully adding one more bit in the next 3 months and so on. There is a reason why Musk BS doesn't find fertile ground in NYC and his cult is largely based in California. Quartely (4 * 3 = 12) reports were adopted because people want to have a clear understanding of how a public company is improving the American consumer's quality of life, and they want it every 3 months. Tesla accounted for 1.3% of all cars sold in the world in 2021, these are rich people toys we are talking about. 1.3% in 20 years. > He owns these markets, because he created them Cars are cars, EV, hybrid, gasoline, diesel...whatever. If you are in the business of making cars the relevance of your company should be judged based on what's you market share in car manufacturing compared against everybody who are also in the business of making cars. Mr. Musk took 20 years to get to 1.3%. That's 80 Quarters. 1.3% / 80 = 0.01625% per quarter. What are we even talking about... By this time around the govt. was already threatning Gates and Rockefeller to put them in jail because they had 95% market share of Operative Systems and oil respectively.

hef19898 4y ago

Which new markets, after paypal? Cars? Rockets that go into space? Solar on roofs? Things carrying people through tunnels? And in all the successful cases he had massive contributions by others. He provided the money, which is huge in itself. The actual work eas done by others, and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so, and that his fanboys believe every single of his claims, truely makes him the Steve Jobs of 2020s we deserve.

shafyy 4y ago
> The actual work eas done by others, and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so This is not true. He often mentions and emphasizes that the success is the work of his great teams. He also publicly acknowledged that he failed to do so in the past, but he is certainly doing it now.
raspberry1337 4y ago
>Which new markets, after paypal? Cars? Rockets that go into space? Yes and yes >The actual work eas done by others, and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so, Give me one instance where Musk denies the work of his friends and colleagues at SpaceX and Tesla please, because this post reek of bad sentiment and an awful take.
- hef19898 4y ago
  I never said he denies it, did I? I sadi, quote, "and the fact the Musk fails to properly say so". To elaborate, Musk takes all the line light in the public for himself, he gets all the hype. Shotwell gets a little bit of it, and that's it then.
  - EricE 4y ago
    Have you actually ever watched an interview with him or just hot takes from Reddit? Because if you had ever watched a full, unedited interview with him you’d be too embarrassed to post what you just did. He’s a pretty humble guy. One of the best interviews with him was the one he did with the Babylon Bee - you should watch it; it’s up on Youtube.
tomp 4y ago
> The actual work eas done by others, Boeing probably has more and better engineers than SpaceX. Same with Toyota/Volkswagen compared to Tesla. Yet these companies simply cannot innovate. Talent (ability to do good work) is pointless without good leadership. > the fact the Musk fails to properly say so This is a lie. https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1517072753475600385 https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/15170727534756003... > The failures are mine, the successes belong to others
- hef19898 4y ago
  Toyota pioneered hybrid vehicles, Boeing got us the first composite fuselage for commercial airliners. I call that innovation. VW is pushing heavily towards EVs, and those actually are in the price range Tesla fails to achieve for its Model 3. It is a different kind of innovation so, only considering "disruptuon" as innovation is quite short sighted so. Espiecially since Christensen himself differentiates between disruptive and sustaining (?) innovation.
  - EricE 4y ago
    Is Boeing in space with SpaceX? Would VW even care about EVs without Tesla? Would they lie about them like they did their diesel emissions? lol - holding up VW as something to emulate! GM had a pretty good EV in the 80’s - then killed it. Literally - never sold them, only leased them and forced owners to cough them back up and destroyed them. I have zero interest in owning a Tesla - their stance on right to repair and their customer service sucks, but without them there wouldn’t be near the activity around EVs as there is now. Like him or not, Elon pretty much single handedly embarrassed the rest of the auto industry to have to take EVs seriously by proving that yes, EVs can be not only useful but cool.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      SpaceX isn't the only company shooting stuff into orbit. And VW isn't the only manufacturer pushing into EVss. I used those two because the were braught by OP. And VW and others would care about EVs because of the general awareness about climate change.

McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago

> You just called the most successful businessman in the world an 'utterly inept businessman'. Success is measured using market share not market cap or net worth of the CEO. Tesla accounted for 1.3% of all cars sold in the world during 2021. Stock price, net worth and number of synchopants getting on their knees are like a voting machine, market share is a weighting machine. When you use the right metric it becomes crystal clear who are te guys setting records at the weighting machine. It's the usual quiet ones: Buffett, Gates, Brin&Page, Tim Cook. Not to mention the GOAT. Rockefeller left Standard Oil at #1 in market share and here we are in 2022 the companies which were under the umbrella of Standard Oil are still at #1.

hackerfromthefu 4y ago
No you can't blithely choose which measure of success - it actually doesn't have a single measure. Your measure of market share is a reasonable one, as are the two I proposed being profit and creating and succeeding in entirely new markets. They are new markets too, it's not rockets, it's reusable rockets at incredibly lower cost to orbit and new capacities to previous ones, it's space based communication networks that are again a serious generational leap ahead of whatever was before, it's the emergence of a serious replacement for ICE vehicles. In all these markets, his companies are the only market share! He owns these markets, because he created them, and is multiple years ahead of the rest of the world's highly motivated competitors. I'm not detracting from the successes of the other guys you mentioned. But Musk can very reasonably be called the world's most successful businessman at the moment on multiple metrics. It might be a competition between Musk and others, but it's the opposite utterly inept, which was the point - trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the OP per HN guidelines, while also keeping the discussion grounded in rational sanity.
- McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago
  OP is right. All the stuff you mentioned brings zero benefits to the consumer. The consumer wants a steady improvement in their quality of life in the next 3 months or less, and then you go from there hopefully adding one more bit in the next 3 months and so on. There is a reason why Musk BS doesn't find fertile ground in NYC and his cult is largely based in California. Quartely (4 * 3 = 12) reports were adopted because people want to have a clear understanding of how a public company is improving the American consumer's quality of life, and they want it every 3 months. Tesla accounted for 1.3% of all cars sold in the world in 2021, these are rich people toys we are talking about. 1.3% in 20 years. > He owns these markets, because he created them Cars are cars, EV, hybrid, gasoline, diesel...whatever. If you are in the business of making cars the relevance of your company should be judged based on what's you market share in car manufacturing compared against everybody who are also in the business of making cars. Mr. Musk took 20 years to get to 1.3%. That's 80 Quarters. 1.3% / 80 = 0.01625% per quarter. What are we even talking about... By this time around the govt. was already threatning Gates and Rockefeller to put them in jail because they had 95% market share of Operative Systems and oil respectively.