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Pretty sure whatever logic the Russians are using leads to genocide considering they're committing it right now... I'm literally advocating for an end to genoc

Pretty sure whatever logic the Russians are using leads to genocide considering they're committing it right now... I'm literally advocating for an end to genocide...

philwelch 5y ago
You are advocating indiscriminate and collective hatred towards entire nationalities. That hatred is the root cause of genocide. And if that is truly your attitude, you don’t even have a consistent moral basis to claim that genocide is categorically wrong. By your logic, an entire nationality of people are collectively responsible for whatever their regime and military do. Since a hostile military can be justifiably killed, why not the civilian populace? I have an answer that question; do you?
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  I simply said that we can talk about Russians' hurt feelings when Ukrainians aren't being killed by Russians. Quote where I said Russians should be killed? No one's killing Russian civilians. I never said anyone should. Russian media and leaders have said Ukraine should be wiped off the map. Mariupol is no longer a city. Tens of thousands of civilians murdered. Women raped. But people are being mean to Russians? You're literally whitewashing a genocide... How about you say what the Russians are doing is wrong?
  - philwelch 5y ago
    This is the statement of mine that you find so objectionable: > I think that’s what a silent majority of reasonable people might think, but there is still a ton of indiscriminate anti-Russian bigotry going around. And for further context, what is the stance that I think "a silent of majority of reasonable people" might think? > The whole world does not hate Russians. On the contrary, I've seen a lot of empathy for Russians abroad and in Russia who do not support the invasion of and atrocities in the Ukraine but still have to suffer because of the Russian government's, or rather Vladimir Putin's, actions. Obviously, yes, Russians who express support for Putin are hated, rightfully so. I have already condemned the actions of the Russian regime. That is not enough for you; you are not satisfied unless I hate the Russian people without distinction. I have done nothing in this thread except to draw the moral distinction between the Russian regime and military and the Russian people as a whole, and to reiterate that it is morally unacceptable to hate, without any distinction, an entire nationality of people. You are the one who took up the mantle of defending bigotry; don't you dare claim the moral high ground.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      Again, show a quote where I "defend" bigotry? I did no such thing, rather said that preventing people dying is more important than hurt feelings. Which it is. Here in Canada Ukrainians have been attacked by Russian supporters; a Ukrainian priest and his family's home was set on fire. There's pro-Putin demonstrations in Germany. There hasn't been any bigotry or violence directed towards Russians abroad yet you are taking up that cause like it's more important than the genocide against Ukrainians itself.
      - philwelch 5y ago
        > There hasn't been any bigotry or violence directed towards Russians abroad This is simply untrue: https://www.fox5dc.com/news/russia-house-restaurant-vandalized https://www.fox5dc.com/news/russia-house-restaurant-vandaliz... https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/vandalism-at-russian-church-may-be-hate-crime-victoria-police-1.5806189 https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/vandalism-at-russian-chur... https://www.npr.org/2022/03/12/1086282867/a-russian-pianists-shows-are-canceled-even-though-he-condemns-the-war-in-ukraine https://www.npr.org/2022/03/12/1086282867/a-russian-pianists... Perhaps you are going to respond that none of this is equivalent to the atrocities committed by the Russian military. And you’d be right, in exactly the same sense that the indiscriminate internment of Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Canadians was not equivalent to the atrocities carried out by the Japanese military. My point here is that one still does not justify the other.
        Mikeb85 5y ago
        A door being splashed with red paint isn't even close to the same level as a priest and his family being intentionally (almost) burned alive...[1] Are you fucking serious? Just admit you support genocide at this point... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-arson-ukrainian-priest-1.6426941 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-ars...
        philwelch 5y ago
        I don't support genocide because I don't support indiscriminate hatred and retribution towards people on the basis of their nationality. I've said that repeatedly. I also don't support what the Russian military is doing in Ukraine, and I think every legitimate Russian military target should be obliterated without mercy. Why isn't that enough for you? Why does it trigger you so much for me to point out that some people are, in fact, irrationally bigoted towards Russian people even when they have nothing to do with this war?

Pretty sure whatever logic the Russians are using leads to genocide considering they're committing it right now... I'm literally advocating for an end to genocide...

philwelch 5y ago

You are advocating indiscriminate and collective hatred towards entire nationalities. That hatred is the root cause of genocide. And if that is truly your attitude, you don’t even have a consistent moral basis to claim that genocide is categorically wrong. By your logic, an entire nationality of people are collectively responsible for whatever their regime and military do. Since a hostile military can be justifiably killed, why not the civilian populace? I have an answer that question; do you?

Mikeb85 5y ago
I simply said that we can talk about Russians' hurt feelings when Ukrainians aren't being killed by Russians. Quote where I said Russians should be killed? No one's killing Russian civilians. I never said anyone should. Russian media and leaders have said Ukraine should be wiped off the map. Mariupol is no longer a city. Tens of thousands of civilians murdered. Women raped. But people are being mean to Russians? You're literally whitewashing a genocide... How about you say what the Russians are doing is wrong?
- philwelch 5y ago
  This is the statement of mine that you find so objectionable: > I think that’s what a silent majority of reasonable people might think, but there is still a ton of indiscriminate anti-Russian bigotry going around. And for further context, what is the stance that I think "a silent of majority of reasonable people" might think? > The whole world does not hate Russians. On the contrary, I've seen a lot of empathy for Russians abroad and in Russia who do not support the invasion of and atrocities in the Ukraine but still have to suffer because of the Russian government's, or rather Vladimir Putin's, actions. Obviously, yes, Russians who express support for Putin are hated, rightfully so. I have already condemned the actions of the Russian regime. That is not enough for you; you are not satisfied unless I hate the Russian people without distinction. I have done nothing in this thread except to draw the moral distinction between the Russian regime and military and the Russian people as a whole, and to reiterate that it is morally unacceptable to hate, without any distinction, an entire nationality of people. You are the one who took up the mantle of defending bigotry; don't you dare claim the moral high ground.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Again, show a quote where I "defend" bigotry? I did no such thing, rather said that preventing people dying is more important than hurt feelings. Which it is. Here in Canada Ukrainians have been attacked by Russian supporters; a Ukrainian priest and his family's home was set on fire. There's pro-Putin demonstrations in Germany. There hasn't been any bigotry or violence directed towards Russians abroad yet you are taking up that cause like it's more important than the genocide against Ukrainians itself.
    - philwelch 5y ago
      > There hasn't been any bigotry or violence directed towards Russians abroad This is simply untrue: https://www.fox5dc.com/news/russia-house-restaurant-vandalized https://www.fox5dc.com/news/russia-house-restaurant-vandaliz... https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/vandalism-at-russian-church-may-be-hate-crime-victoria-police-1.5806189 https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/vandalism-at-russian-chur... https://www.npr.org/2022/03/12/1086282867/a-russian-pianists-shows-are-canceled-even-though-he-condemns-the-war-in-ukraine https://www.npr.org/2022/03/12/1086282867/a-russian-pianists... Perhaps you are going to respond that none of this is equivalent to the atrocities committed by the Russian military. And you’d be right, in exactly the same sense that the indiscriminate internment of Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Canadians was not equivalent to the atrocities carried out by the Japanese military. My point here is that one still does not justify the other.
      - Mikeb85 5y ago
        A door being splashed with red paint isn't even close to the same level as a priest and his family being intentionally (almost) burned alive...[1] Are you fucking serious? Just admit you support genocide at this point... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-arson-ukrainian-priest-1.6426941 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-ars...
        philwelch 5y ago
        I don't support genocide because I don't support indiscriminate hatred and retribution towards people on the basis of their nationality. I've said that repeatedly. I also don't support what the Russian military is doing in Ukraine, and I think every legitimate Russian military target should be obliterated without mercy. Why isn't that enough for you? Why does it trigger you so much for me to point out that some people are, in fact, irrationally bigoted towards Russian people even when they have nothing to do with this war?