7 ms·

He’s not just a showman, but he is a showman. And it’s not like you have to dig back into ancient history to find instances where he invented a bid like this, h

He’s not just a showman, but he is a showman. And it’s not like you have to dig back into ancient history to find instances where he invented a bid like this, he basically made up a bid for Tesla a few years ago and lied about having secured financing.

panick21_ 5y ago
Yeah that's why there is such a long history of showman starting successful rocket company and other successful high capital businesses. Musk has never admired to having made up the funding. He settled the dispute because it lead to problems with Tesla credit rating, banks didn't want an outstanding dispute with SEC.
AlchemistCamp 5y ago
> lied about having secured financing. He says he did have funding secured. He elaborated on the details in the recent TED talk. Do you have any privileged information about the incident or are you just casually calling someone a liar based on third-hand news you read online?
- evthrowaway 5y ago
- vba616 5y ago
  A judge recently said he was a liar and it was so far beyond dispute that a jury would not be allowed to decide for themselves, as they might be influenced by Musk's ongoing public BSing such as with the TED talk. So, no, informed people are not "casually" calling him a liar.
  - AlchemistCamp 5y ago
    > A judge recently said he was a liar I sincerely doubt that. Judges don’t tend to talk that way, regardless of the case at hand.
    - Toboe 5y ago
      >> A judge recently said he was a liar >I sincerely doubt that. Judges don’t tend to talk that way, regardless of the case at hand. GP is probably refering to this (in which case you are right, judge didn't use words like liar) https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/04/judge-in-musk-trial-will-tell-jury-that-funding-secured-tweets-were-false/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/04/judge-in-musk-tr... "Judge in Musk trial will tell jury that “Funding secured” tweets were false" and "[T]hough 'jury instructions are often an ineffective remedy,' the Court finds that unlikely to be true for the instant case where the jury will be told that the Court has already found that the August 2018 tweets were false and made with the requisite scienter [knowledge of wrongdoing]," Chen wrote.
      - dwighttk 5y ago
        >false and made with the requisite scienter Those are words like liar.
      - skinnymuch 5y ago
        So the judge said he’s a liar. Just without using the exact word lie or liar
    - vba616 5y ago
      True, and that is why I didn't write 'A judge recently called him a "liar"'.
samuelstros 5y ago
Internal chat between Musk and the Saudi investors just popped up on my twitter feed https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1518353213283442688 https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1518353213283442688 Doesn't seem like the funding secured thing was an outright lie.
- gamblor956 5y ago
  Nowhere in the emails do the Saudi investors pledge funding. At best, they say they might be interested in investing. Therefore, "funding secured" was absolutely an outright lie, unless words don't have meaning anymore.
  - matthewdgreen 5y ago
    It’s much worse than that. I had previously assumed Musk knew what he was doing and was fooling around on Twitter in an effort to (unethically) crush short sellers. Now it appears like he’s an utterly inept businessman who took the first verbal sign of interest, rushed it to Twitter as though the deal was complete, and then blew up the deal in a hissy fit. I still think what he’s done at SpaceX and Tesla is admirable, but after reading those emails I’m definitely a few percent less confident that there will still be a Tesla to service my Model 3 in the future.
    - mlindner 5y ago
      He's not an inept businessman. He's someone with aspergers who takes someone at face value at all times. If someone says something is the case he believes them. He doesn't handle being deceived well nor does he know when it's happening. And actually he's not a "businessman" at all. He's an engineer at heart. "Businessman" would require strong social skills, not something someone with aspergers has good ability at.
      - fxtentacle 5y ago
        Very interesting theory. But do you have a source?
mlindner 5y ago
He's never been a showman. It's a ridiculous internet myth that thinks that he is. Anyone who says he's a showman really has no understanding of the guy and hasn't looked at what he's said outside of the stuff he's put on twitter. Listen to his speeches, and not the one where it's some bland interviewer that constantly interrupts him.
- skulk 5y ago
  Here's Musk being a pure showman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQcfi8HK1i8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQcfi8HK1i8 Even though there's a bunch of people (including Carmack) that claim that he's a great engineer, it's really hard to believe when he's put out stuff like this. Like, did he use up all of his thinking fuel on designing rockets that he didn't understand why the boring company's mission was a total non-starter?
  - mlindner 5y ago
    A CNN 2 minute video chopping up what he says to make it sound more grand is not him being a "showman". It's called video editing. You can tell the video has been HIGHLY edited because it's not how he talks. > it's really hard to believe when he's put out stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw?t=122 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw?t=122 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI This is how Musk actually talks. > Like, did he use up all of his thinking fuel on designing rockets that he didn't understand why the boring company's mission was a total non-starter? He doesn't spend a lot of time working on the boring company to be frank. It's a small side project. He's doing it to see if it's possible.
    - skulk 5y ago
      The point is, building tunnels underground for personal transport vehicles as a "solution" to traffic is a terrible idea, and something only a showman can sell. Even if he has an awkward 2 hour speech about it, he succeeded as a showman because Vegas funded this terrible idea (just look how it ended up).

panick21_ 5y ago

Yeah that's why there is such a long history of showman starting successful rocket company and other successful high capital businesses. Musk has never admired to having made up the funding. He settled the dispute because it lead to problems with Tesla credit rating, banks didn't want an outstanding dispute with SEC.

AlchemistCamp 5y ago

> lied about having secured financing. He says he did have funding secured. He elaborated on the details in the recent TED talk. Do you have any privileged information about the incident or are you just casually calling someone a liar based on third-hand news you read online?

evthrowaway 5y ago
vba616 5y ago
A judge recently said he was a liar and it was so far beyond dispute that a jury would not be allowed to decide for themselves, as they might be influenced by Musk's ongoing public BSing such as with the TED talk. So, no, informed people are not "casually" calling him a liar.
- AlchemistCamp 5y ago
  > A judge recently said he was a liar I sincerely doubt that. Judges don’t tend to talk that way, regardless of the case at hand.
  - Toboe 5y ago
    >> A judge recently said he was a liar >I sincerely doubt that. Judges don’t tend to talk that way, regardless of the case at hand. GP is probably refering to this (in which case you are right, judge didn't use words like liar) https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/04/judge-in-musk-trial-will-tell-jury-that-funding-secured-tweets-were-false/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/04/judge-in-musk-tr... "Judge in Musk trial will tell jury that “Funding secured” tweets were false" and "[T]hough 'jury instructions are often an ineffective remedy,' the Court finds that unlikely to be true for the instant case where the jury will be told that the Court has already found that the August 2018 tweets were false and made with the requisite scienter [knowledge of wrongdoing]," Chen wrote.
    - dwighttk 5y ago
      >false and made with the requisite scienter Those are words like liar.
    - skinnymuch 5y ago
      So the judge said he’s a liar. Just without using the exact word lie or liar
  - vba616 5y ago
    True, and that is why I didn't write 'A judge recently called him a "liar"'.

samuelstros 5y ago

Internal chat between Musk and the Saudi investors just popped up on my twitter feed https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1518353213283442688 https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1518353213283442688 Doesn't seem like the funding secured thing was an outright lie.

gamblor956 5y ago
Nowhere in the emails do the Saudi investors pledge funding. At best, they say they might be interested in investing. Therefore, "funding secured" was absolutely an outright lie, unless words don't have meaning anymore.
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  It’s much worse than that. I had previously assumed Musk knew what he was doing and was fooling around on Twitter in an effort to (unethically) crush short sellers. Now it appears like he’s an utterly inept businessman who took the first verbal sign of interest, rushed it to Twitter as though the deal was complete, and then blew up the deal in a hissy fit. I still think what he’s done at SpaceX and Tesla is admirable, but after reading those emails I’m definitely a few percent less confident that there will still be a Tesla to service my Model 3 in the future.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    He's not an inept businessman. He's someone with aspergers who takes someone at face value at all times. If someone says something is the case he believes them. He doesn't handle being deceived well nor does he know when it's happening. And actually he's not a "businessman" at all. He's an engineer at heart. "Businessman" would require strong social skills, not something someone with aspergers has good ability at.
    - fxtentacle 5y ago
      Very interesting theory. But do you have a source?

mlindner 5y ago

He's never been a showman. It's a ridiculous internet myth that thinks that he is. Anyone who says he's a showman really has no understanding of the guy and hasn't looked at what he's said outside of the stuff he's put on twitter. Listen to his speeches, and not the one where it's some bland interviewer that constantly interrupts him.

skulk 5y ago
Here's Musk being a pure showman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQcfi8HK1i8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQcfi8HK1i8 Even though there's a bunch of people (including Carmack) that claim that he's a great engineer, it's really hard to believe when he's put out stuff like this. Like, did he use up all of his thinking fuel on designing rockets that he didn't understand why the boring company's mission was a total non-starter?
- mlindner 5y ago
  A CNN 2 minute video chopping up what he says to make it sound more grand is not him being a "showman". It's called video editing. You can tell the video has been HIGHLY edited because it's not how he talks. > it's really hard to believe when he's put out stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw?t=122 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw?t=122 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI This is how Musk actually talks. > Like, did he use up all of his thinking fuel on designing rockets that he didn't understand why the boring company's mission was a total non-starter? He doesn't spend a lot of time working on the boring company to be frank. It's a small side project. He's doing it to see if it's possible.
  - skulk 5y ago
    The point is, building tunnels underground for personal transport vehicles as a "solution" to traffic is a terrible idea, and something only a showman can sell. Even if he has an awkward 2 hour speech about it, he succeeded as a showman because Vegas funded this terrible idea (just look how it ended up).