4 ms·

From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deducti

From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deductible plans (those are specifically broken out) so they're going to be pretty good insurance, especially PPO. So $400/mo is only underestimating the true cost by about $100/mo. You can't use ACA marketplace prices to judge what your average worker is paying. > spending $3k a month on day care It costs $3200/mo to pay someone $20/h for 40 hours a week, in what world does day care (where one caretaker takes care of multiple children!) cost $3000/mo? The average cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo [2]. If you use the infant care cost it's $1400/mo, still nowhere near $3000. Maybe in the middle of New York City it costs $3000, but that's not a realistic living scenario for a plumber. If your spouse makes $3000/mo then the rent increase (call it an extra $800/mo to get to $2k/mo) and childcare cost ($1000/mo) are more than covered by their extra income. Please just look at the data and take a moment to understand what expenses outside of SF/NYC/LA look like. [1]: https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-summary-of-findings/ https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-summary-of-find... [2]: https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/CA https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/...

rtlfe 4y ago
> cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo The link you provided says $1,412. And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County. https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_CostofBeingCalifornian_6_web.pdf https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_C...
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  Did you bother to look at it? Or read my post? > The average annual cost of infant care in California is $16,945—that’s $1,412 per month. Child care for a 4-year-old costs $11,475, or $956 each month. $1400 for an infant, $950 for a 4 year old. And that's in _the_ highest cost of living state in the country. If you put Michigan it drops to $905/741. > And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County Your link comes off as incredibly biased. In literally the second sentence it says "Black and brown people and women of color experienced profound losses of health, community, income, and business at rates far more severe than white households" There's a clear ultra-left political lean to it. I also literally said that SF/LA/NYC are not representative of costs in the rest of the country. If you're a plumber in SF you make over 6 figures, easily. A plumber makes $80k in a random Midwest city, not in SF/LA. The state of California reported median plumbers in the East Bay made $115k in 2021 [1]. You are fundamentally trying to mislead by using Midwest wages and San Francisco costs. Not to mention that the inflated cost of living is caused by a housing shortage which subsidizing healthcare and childcare doesn't fix. [1]: https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.aspx?Soccode=472152&Geography=0604000001 https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.asp...
true_religion 4y ago
They aren’t really talking about day care, but a nanny who only takes care of your own children. It’s what’s comparable to having a stay at home parent.
- rtlfe 4y ago
  I wish. Nanny would be probably double that where I live.
jjav 4y ago
> It costs $3200/mo to pay someone $20/h for 40 hours a week, in what world does day care (where one caretaker takes care of multiple children!) cost $3000/mo? Tell me you have no children without telling me you have no children? The daycare my child went to is $2500/month. Not quite $3K but I'm not in the most expensive areas. I have no doubt it can go over $3K in SF/Palo Alto/etc.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  I saw in your post history you're also paying $2000/mo for health insurance. Maybe you're not making the wisest financial decisions? There's no world in which a rational person pays that much given the data and available plans. Even an ACA platinum plan (the top one) with zero employer or government subsidy is cheaper than that. I just looked and a Platinum plan in CA for a family costs $1400.
  - jjav 4y ago
    > I saw in your post history you're also paying $2000/mo for health insurance. Maybe you're not making the wisest financial decisions? Not only an ad hominen, but changing topics? > I just looked and a Platinum plan in CA for a family costs $1400. I don't know where you looked but it's wrong. I literally just went to https://www.coveredca.com/ https://www.coveredca.com/ and filled in details for a quote. A platinum plan with Blue Shield is $2530.04/month. With Kaiser, it is $2637.23/month.
nunez 4y ago
gonna guess those averages include state-run programs where parents get vouchers for daycare i'm not a parent and don't want to be one but know enough parents to know that daycare is bloody fucking expensive, usually thousands/mo, unless the parents have a support system, but even then it's a trade-off. the silver lining of course is that it's a temporary expense.

rtlfe 4y ago

> cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo The link you provided says $1,412. And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County. https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_CostofBeingCalifornian_6_web.pdf https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_C...

ceeplusplus 4y ago
Did you bother to look at it? Or read my post? > The average annual cost of infant care in California is $16,945—that’s $1,412 per month. Child care for a 4-year-old costs $11,475, or $956 each month. $1400 for an infant, $950 for a 4 year old. And that's in _the_ highest cost of living state in the country. If you put Michigan it drops to $905/741. > And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County Your link comes off as incredibly biased. In literally the second sentence it says "Black and brown people and women of color experienced profound losses of health, community, income, and business at rates far more severe than white households" There's a clear ultra-left political lean to it. I also literally said that SF/LA/NYC are not representative of costs in the rest of the country. If you're a plumber in SF you make over 6 figures, easily. A plumber makes $80k in a random Midwest city, not in SF/LA. The state of California reported median plumbers in the East Bay made $115k in 2021 [1]. You are fundamentally trying to mislead by using Midwest wages and San Francisco costs. Not to mention that the inflated cost of living is caused by a housing shortage which subsidizing healthcare and childcare doesn't fix. [1]: https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.aspx?Soccode=472152&Geography=0604000001 https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.asp...

true_religion 4y ago

They aren’t really talking about day care, but a nanny who only takes care of your own children. It’s what’s comparable to having a stay at home parent.

rtlfe 4y ago
I wish. Nanny would be probably double that where I live.

jjav 4y ago

> It costs $3200/mo to pay someone $20/h for 40 hours a week, in what world does day care (where one caretaker takes care of multiple children!) cost $3000/mo? Tell me you have no children without telling me you have no children? The daycare my child went to is $2500/month. Not quite $3K but I'm not in the most expensive areas. I have no doubt it can go over $3K in SF/Palo Alto/etc.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
I saw in your post history you're also paying $2000/mo for health insurance. Maybe you're not making the wisest financial decisions? There's no world in which a rational person pays that much given the data and available plans. Even an ACA platinum plan (the top one) with zero employer or government subsidy is cheaper than that. I just looked and a Platinum plan in CA for a family costs $1400.
- jjav 4y ago
  > I saw in your post history you're also paying $2000/mo for health insurance. Maybe you're not making the wisest financial decisions? Not only an ad hominen, but changing topics? > I just looked and a Platinum plan in CA for a family costs $1400. I don't know where you looked but it's wrong. I literally just went to https://www.coveredca.com/ https://www.coveredca.com/ and filled in details for a quote. A platinum plan with Blue Shield is $2530.04/month. With Kaiser, it is $2637.23/month.

nunez 4y ago

gonna guess those averages include state-run programs where parents get vouchers for daycare i'm not a parent and don't want to be one but know enough parents to know that daycare is bloody fucking expensive, usually thousands/mo, unless the parents have a support system, but even then it's a trade-off. the silver lining of course is that it's a temporary expense.