5 ms·

What prevents you from repairing them now, exactly? Hot air rework stations have come down dramatically in cost, and there's no shortage of videos talking about

by Syonyk 5y ago

What prevents you from repairing them now, exactly? Hot air rework stations have come down dramatically in cost, and there's no shortage of videos talking about how to do it. Try a few scrap bits before working on something expensive... It's nice to be able to swap things out with sockets, and you'll generally find me coming down on the side of repairability, but it exists with a variety of other considerations, and something that is less repairable, but also far less likely to fail in the first place, may be a better option. Also, I rather like the fact that soldered on RAM makes things like coldboot attacks a lot harder to pull off if you're using trusted boot. Heavy use of adhesives is certainly a problem, but I just can't get that worked up over soldered on RAM.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
I don't have a garage to keep equipment that I will use once in 3 years, I don't have scraps to resolder and that's probably true for most people. For whatever reason a real repairshop is a lot harder to find than a laundrette - I was looking for one to fix a GPU, and I could not find one.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  These sockets cost $60 a piece.[0] Four of them alone is already ~$250. Add manufacturer markup, and you’re looking at an extra $300 to the consumer. If manufacturers want to make RAM replaceable, they should be putting SO-DIMM slots (which cost single digits),[1] not BGA sockets. After all, the average consumer is more likely to know how to procure RAM sticks than raw BGA RAM from DigiKey, Mouser, etc. [0]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html [1]: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/10033854-052FSLF/1001323 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/10033854-052FSLF/...
Ekaros 5y ago
When I think about it it could certainly make layman repairing them cheaper. But I'm not sure if it really would chance too much with professional work, the parts and labour time would still be about the same or in same magnitude. And how often does RAM fail anyway? Or if it needs to be upgraded what about other parts?
eternityforest 5y ago
Even replacing an 0805 is a pretty significant challenge. I have no idea how people do BGAs with anything but a pick and place. Plus, without x-rays, how do you know you got it right? There's a lot of ways something can have a weak joint that isn't immediately noticeable. And, unless you have CNC equipment the result is more art than science, the quality depends largely on your hands. I wouldn't trust a device that had been repaired by anyone but an experienced pro, seeing as how these devices(along with phones) are the cornerstones of modern life.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  What I've seen is: use a microscope is used to align the new part with the silkscreen outline. Get it good enough and turn on the heat. The part will self align as the solder melts.
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    Which is fine for single item repairs or upgrades where the person doing the work is tech savvy and all parties are will to accept the loss of a functional device in case something goes awry. (Which, admittedly, is rare, but you have to take the liability on yourself every time). Something like that is entirely non-feasible for mass manufacturing of parts with any guarantee of quality though.

by Syonyk 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

I don't have a garage to keep equipment that I will use once in 3 years, I don't have scraps to resolder and that's probably true for most people. For whatever reason a real repairshop is a lot harder to find than a laundrette - I was looking for one to fix a GPU, and I could not find one.

colejohnson66 5y ago
These sockets cost $60 a piece.[0] Four of them alone is already ~$250. Add manufacturer markup, and you’re looking at an extra $300 to the consumer. If manufacturers want to make RAM replaceable, they should be putting SO-DIMM slots (which cost single digits),[1] not BGA sockets. After all, the average consumer is more likely to know how to procure RAM sticks than raw BGA RAM from DigiKey, Mouser, etc. [0]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html [1]: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/10033854-052FSLF/1001323 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/10033854-052FSLF/...

Ekaros 5y ago

When I think about it it could certainly make layman repairing them cheaper. But I'm not sure if it really would chance too much with professional work, the parts and labour time would still be about the same or in same magnitude. And how often does RAM fail anyway? Or if it needs to be upgraded what about other parts?

eternityforest 5y ago

Even replacing an 0805 is a pretty significant challenge. I have no idea how people do BGAs with anything but a pick and place. Plus, without x-rays, how do you know you got it right? There's a lot of ways something can have a weak joint that isn't immediately noticeable. And, unless you have CNC equipment the result is more art than science, the quality depends largely on your hands. I wouldn't trust a device that had been repaired by anyone but an experienced pro, seeing as how these devices(along with phones) are the cornerstones of modern life.

colejohnson66 5y ago
What I've seen is: use a microscope is used to align the new part with the silkscreen outline. Get it good enough and turn on the heat. The part will self align as the solder melts.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  Which is fine for single item repairs or upgrades where the person doing the work is tech savvy and all parties are will to accept the loss of a functional device in case something goes awry. (Which, admittedly, is rare, but you have to take the liability on yourself every time). Something like that is entirely non-feasible for mass manufacturing of parts with any guarantee of quality though.