3 ms·

At 80k your post-tax takehome is $5000/mo even filing single in a high tax state. Take out $400 for health insurance, $800 for car+insurance, $1200 for rent, an

At 80k your post-tax takehome is $5000/mo even filing single in a high tax state. Take out $400 for health insurance, $800 for car+insurance, $1200 for rent, and you've still got $2500 for food, miscellaneous spending, Roth IRA, etc. Even if all those costs come to $2000 - unlikely, since the Roth contribution limit is $6k / year - you're still left with $500/month in savings. And that's assuming your partner doesn't bring in _any_ income, which is exceedingly unlikely. If your typical rent is $1200, that means property values in your area are almost certainly low enough to qualify for FHA loans, which only require 3.5% down due to government subsidies. 3.5% of $450k is $16k - so it only takes about 3 years to save for that down payment. Home prices are high _because_ FHA loans allow people to have greater purchasing power (among many other reasons like NIMBYism).

rtlfe 4y ago
I hope this person never has a kid. Enjoy your rent doubling to get enough space and either losing your partner's income or spending $3k a month on day care. Plus whatever crappy insurance you're getting for $400 a month is going to leave with $10k+ in bills for just birthing the kid.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deductible plans (those are specifically broken out) so they're going to be pretty good insurance, especially PPO. So $400/mo is only underestimating the true cost by about $100/mo. You can't use ACA marketplace prices to judge what your average worker is paying. > spending $3k a month on day care It costs $3200/mo to pay someone $20/h for 40 hours a week, in what world does day care (where one caretaker takes care of multiple children!) cost $3000/mo? The average cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo [2]. If you use the infant care cost it's $1400/mo, still nowhere near $3000. Maybe in the middle of New York City it costs $3000, but that's not a realistic living scenario for a plumber. If your spouse makes $3000/mo then the rent increase (call it an extra $800/mo to get to $2k/mo) and childcare cost ($1000/mo) are more than covered by their extra income. Please just look at the data and take a moment to understand what expenses outside of SF/NYC/LA look like. [1]: https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-summary-of-findings/ https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-summary-of-find... [2]: https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/CA https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/...
  - rtlfe 4y ago
    > cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo The link you provided says $1,412. And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County. https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_CostofBeingCalifornian_6_web.pdf https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_C...
    - ceeplusplus 4y ago
      Did you bother to look at it? Or read my post? > The average annual cost of infant care in California is $16,945—that’s $1,412 per month. Child care for a 4-year-old costs $11,475, or $956 each month. $1400 for an infant, $950 for a 4 year old. And that's in _the_ highest cost of living state in the country. If you put Michigan it drops to $905/741. > And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County Your link comes off as incredibly biased. In literally the second sentence it says "Black and brown people and women of color experienced profound losses of health, community, income, and business at rates far more severe than white households" There's a clear ultra-left political lean to it. I also literally said that SF/LA/NYC are not representative of costs in the rest of the country. If you're a plumber in SF you make over 6 figures, easily. A plumber makes $80k in a random Midwest city, not in SF/LA. The state of California reported median plumbers in the East Bay made $115k in 2021 [1]. You are fundamentally trying to mislead by using Midwest wages and San Francisco costs. Not to mention that the inflated cost of living is caused by a housing shortage which subsidizing healthcare and childcare doesn't fix. [1]: https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.aspx?Soccode=472152&Geography=0604000001 https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.asp...
  - true_religion 4y ago
    They aren’t really talking about day care, but a nanny who only takes care of your own children. It’s what’s comparable to having a stay at home parent.
    - rtlfe 4y ago
      I wish. Nanny would be probably double that where I live.
nunez 4y ago
also assumes no loans or credit card debt, both of which are unfortunately likely also assumes that you are mentally strong enough to live like a pauper to hopefully afford the bare minimum required to scrounge up a downpayment. doesn't assume building a maintenance fund (2% of home value per year), closing costs (2% of home value, one-time cost), purchasing stuff to fill the home (like furniture/appliances), etc.

rtlfe 4y ago

I hope this person never has a kid. Enjoy your rent doubling to get enough space and either losing your partner's income or spending $3k a month on day care. Plus whatever crappy insurance you're getting for $400 a month is going to leave with $10k+ in bills for just birthing the kid.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deductible plans (those are specifically broken out) so they're going to be pretty good insurance, especially PPO. So $400/mo is only underestimating the true cost by about $100/mo. You can't use ACA marketplace prices to judge what your average worker is paying. > spending $3k a month on day care It costs $3200/mo to pay someone $20/h for 40 hours a week, in what world does day care (where one caretaker takes care of multiple children!) cost $3000/mo? The average cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo [2]. If you use the infant care cost it's $1400/mo, still nowhere near $3000. Maybe in the middle of New York City it costs $3000, but that's not a realistic living scenario for a plumber. If your spouse makes $3000/mo then the rent increase (call it an extra $800/mo to get to $2k/mo) and childcare cost ($1000/mo) are more than covered by their extra income. Please just look at the data and take a moment to understand what expenses outside of SF/NYC/LA look like. [1]: https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-summary-of-findings/ https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-summary-of-find... [2]: https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/CA https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/...
- rtlfe 4y ago
  > cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo The link you provided says $1,412. And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County. https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_CostofBeingCalifornian_6_web.pdf https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_C...
  - ceeplusplus 4y ago
    Did you bother to look at it? Or read my post? > The average annual cost of infant care in California is $16,945—that’s $1,412 per month. Child care for a 4-year-old costs $11,475, or $956 each month. $1400 for an infant, $950 for a 4 year old. And that's in _the_ highest cost of living state in the country. If you put Michigan it drops to $905/741. > And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County Your link comes off as incredibly biased. In literally the second sentence it says "Black and brown people and women of color experienced profound losses of health, community, income, and business at rates far more severe than white households" There's a clear ultra-left political lean to it. I also literally said that SF/LA/NYC are not representative of costs in the rest of the country. If you're a plumber in SF you make over 6 figures, easily. A plumber makes $80k in a random Midwest city, not in SF/LA. The state of California reported median plumbers in the East Bay made $115k in 2021 [1]. You are fundamentally trying to mislead by using Midwest wages and San Francisco costs. Not to mention that the inflated cost of living is caused by a housing shortage which subsidizing healthcare and childcare doesn't fix. [1]: https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.aspx?Soccode=472152&Geography=0604000001 https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.asp...
- true_religion 4y ago
  They aren’t really talking about day care, but a nanny who only takes care of your own children. It’s what’s comparable to having a stay at home parent.
  - rtlfe 4y ago
    I wish. Nanny would be probably double that where I live.

nunez 4y ago

also assumes no loans or credit card debt, both of which are unfortunately likely also assumes that you are mentally strong enough to live like a pauper to hopefully afford the bare minimum required to scrounge up a downpayment. doesn't assume building a maintenance fund (2% of home value per year), closing costs (2% of home value, one-time cost), purchasing stuff to fill the home (like furniture/appliances), etc.