6 ms·

Florida governor signs bill stripping Disney of self-governing authority

39 points by leephillips 5y ago

ss108 5y ago
free speech tho
- tamaharbor 5y ago
  Tell that to Twitter, Facebook, etc.
  - ss108 5y ago
    Facebook is a straight-up fake news booster that has decided it is interests to spread Covid misinformation and videos casting doubt on the occurrence of actual war crimes and genocides. Doesn't seem to engage in much censorship at all, unfortunately. But my point is that contemporary "conservatives" (I prefer not to call this bullshit conservatism) rail against "cancel culture" and pretend like they're defenders of free speech, but it's yet another context and instance in which they are hypocrites. https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/the-third-rail/email/1eff62d6-d95e-49f2-8e85-5a8ac4333206/ https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/the-third-rail/email/1ef... ^ Actual conservative David French weighing in.
    - joemazerino 5y ago
      "Actual conservative" is a highly subjective term. Peak clown world is Leftists defending a company that outright engages in union busting and antagonizing blue-collar workers since its inception. This is not a free speech issue. Disney is not a person.
      - ddingus 5y ago
        They are not leftists in the economic sense. They are Neoliberals, and defending corporations in this fashion makes perfect sense in that context. Neoliberals are socially left, but economically corporatist. There are few elected leftists. They are generally left on social issues and left economically, and have been called populist. (A term I agree with that is a bit better because it does leave room for other party and indie voters to have common ground economically. Populism opens the door to class politics to a greater degree than either party and or leftist does and does so because it does not yet have tribalism making it hard to talk with others and understand them well enough for further conversation, solidarity and action. The indie voting group contains the most actual leftists by percentage, and it is currently the largest group of voters, weighing in about 45 ish percent. The two parties share most of the rest. All that said, I agree! Disney is not a person. Sadly, the law does tend to treat it as one more than it should.
      - ss108 5y ago
        I'm not a "leftist", and Disney is a person (my friend).
- whatthesmack 5y ago
  This bill has nothing to do with free speech. Disney--a massive two-faced out-of-state for-profit corporation that is silent on China's abuse of Uygur populations in Xinjiang--had special privileges that only local governments are usually afforded. This bill eliminates the special privileges of this and other similar districts. This has been a long standing issue that many have wanted resolved. Disney has been known to abuse their privileges and avoid a massive amount of taxes they otherwise would have owed. If it weren't for Disney advocating against the bill that bans sex-related teaching for K-3rd grade, there might not have been the political will to make this happen. But Disney exercised their free speech rights. And Floridians, through their elected politicians, eliminated an unfair business advantage of a massive out-of-state for-profit corporation. Democracy at work!
  - readme 5y ago
    it has everything to do with free speech DeSantis himself said that the elimination of the special tax district is retaliation for their opposition to his don't say gay bill, on Fox (specifically during his interview with Tucker Carlson) but the supreme court ruled in the past that retaliation against first amendment protected free speech is unconstitutional https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/547/250.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/547/250.html it's political theatre and will go nowhere, but if it did: Disney pays for a host of services (police, fire, etc) that would instead be passed on to local counties, so it's possible that the company comes out in the black
    - joemazerino 5y ago
      It shouldn't be surprising that DeSantis says he's punishing Disney as the company is actively attempting to sabotage his political moves. I'm sure there is more nuance to the action either way.
      - jtgeibel 5y ago
        What exactly is Disney's transgression here? This seems to stem from a single statement about a single bill. Is there more to this? Otherwise this seems completely disproportionate.
V__ 5y ago
I'm gonna quote a comment from the reddit user Cyber_Dan, which I think is good context to this situation: > I don't think a lot of people understand what Reedy Creek is or why its a controversy so here's a simple explanation from a long time Florida resident. When Disney first looked at breaking ground in Central Florida for a new theme park in the 1960s, the area was virtually uninhabited with the exception of some small rural farming communities, of which Reedy Creek was one. The counties of Orange and Osceola did not have the resources to provide all the infrastructure and services that Walt Disney World would need. So Disney offered to provide all those services under the provision that they be the sole administrator over them since neither county that Walt Disney World sprawls into had the resources to do so. So the Florida Legislature came up with the Reedy Creek Improvement District which functions as a semi-independent municipality under the administration of the Walt Disney Corporation. > There are legal provisions in the law that specify the scope of this district, how this district is managed and how it may be dissolved; all of which Governor DeSantis and the Florida Legislature just violated with the bill they proposed and passed. Disney knows this, the Florida Legislature knows this, odds are this will be fought in court and won by Disney and thrown out as unconstitutional because the state just violated their own law. Plus, Reedy Creek is a municipality with Florida citizens residing in it and any change to their district would have to be approved by those voters, approval the State of Florida did not get or even ask for. > Additionally, the biggest benefit to Walt Disney Corp is that managing their own municipality allowed them to bypass red tape in typical county zoning and permitting. However, at this point Walt Disney basically owns both Orange and Osceola county and should they be forced to take over administration of Reedy Creek odds are they will create special provisions for Walt Disney Corp. However, both Orange and Osceola would have to absorb any debts the Reedy Creek Improvement District currently holds, which is about 2 billion dollars in bond debt which will have to be immediately reimbursed to the bond holds if the district is dissolved. That, along with the infrastructure costs to maintaining Reedy Creek which would also be passed along to the counties which amount to a tax assessment being levied against every resident in Orange county by about 4000 per year. If Osceola assumes the debt, it would be even higher because that county has a smaller population. The 2 counties will have to sort out who is responsible for what since Walt Disney World sprawls across both counties. > Disney would face a higher tax liability, however, the Florida Legislature passed a law several years ago that limits the amount that counties could raise their property taxes to no more than 10% per year. That would not be enough to cover Reedy Creek's bond debt even with Disney included. Basically Florida would be taking over 2 billion in debt off Disney's books and dropping it on to the Florida taxpayers in central Florida. Disney would also have the added benefit of no longer need to pay for the expense of maintaining the district (fire services, police, medical, sewage, roads, etc) which will also fall onto the Florida taxpayer. All of these savings disney stands to gain more than offsets whatever small tax increase they would pay due to the cap. > Basically this entire stunt is doomed to fail. Its a political game that will go nowhere. Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/u8ap8q/florida_state_senate_passes_bill_that_would/i5mal5j/ https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/u8ap8q/florida_st...
specialist 5y ago
Unchecked power begats purges. DeSantis is just following the tyrant playbook. Keeping the loyal opposition around, the Democrats & misc Liberals in this case, is the only thing that's preventing an all out Republican civil war.

39 points by leephillips 5y ago

ss108 5y ago

free speech tho

tamaharbor 5y ago
Tell that to Twitter, Facebook, etc.
- ss108 5y ago
  Facebook is a straight-up fake news booster that has decided it is interests to spread Covid misinformation and videos casting doubt on the occurrence of actual war crimes and genocides. Doesn't seem to engage in much censorship at all, unfortunately. But my point is that contemporary "conservatives" (I prefer not to call this bullshit conservatism) rail against "cancel culture" and pretend like they're defenders of free speech, but it's yet another context and instance in which they are hypocrites. https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/the-third-rail/email/1eff62d6-d95e-49f2-8e85-5a8ac4333206/ https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/the-third-rail/email/1ef... ^ Actual conservative David French weighing in.
  - joemazerino 5y ago
    "Actual conservative" is a highly subjective term. Peak clown world is Leftists defending a company that outright engages in union busting and antagonizing blue-collar workers since its inception. This is not a free speech issue. Disney is not a person.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      They are not leftists in the economic sense. They are Neoliberals, and defending corporations in this fashion makes perfect sense in that context. Neoliberals are socially left, but economically corporatist. There are few elected leftists. They are generally left on social issues and left economically, and have been called populist. (A term I agree with that is a bit better because it does leave room for other party and indie voters to have common ground economically. Populism opens the door to class politics to a greater degree than either party and or leftist does and does so because it does not yet have tribalism making it hard to talk with others and understand them well enough for further conversation, solidarity and action. The indie voting group contains the most actual leftists by percentage, and it is currently the largest group of voters, weighing in about 45 ish percent. The two parties share most of the rest. All that said, I agree! Disney is not a person. Sadly, the law does tend to treat it as one more than it should.
    - ss108 5y ago
      I'm not a "leftist", and Disney is a person (my friend).
whatthesmack 5y ago
This bill has nothing to do with free speech. Disney--a massive two-faced out-of-state for-profit corporation that is silent on China's abuse of Uygur populations in Xinjiang--had special privileges that only local governments are usually afforded. This bill eliminates the special privileges of this and other similar districts. This has been a long standing issue that many have wanted resolved. Disney has been known to abuse their privileges and avoid a massive amount of taxes they otherwise would have owed. If it weren't for Disney advocating against the bill that bans sex-related teaching for K-3rd grade, there might not have been the political will to make this happen. But Disney exercised their free speech rights. And Floridians, through their elected politicians, eliminated an unfair business advantage of a massive out-of-state for-profit corporation. Democracy at work!
- readme 5y ago
  it has everything to do with free speech DeSantis himself said that the elimination of the special tax district is retaliation for their opposition to his don't say gay bill, on Fox (specifically during his interview with Tucker Carlson) but the supreme court ruled in the past that retaliation against first amendment protected free speech is unconstitutional https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/547/250.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/547/250.html it's political theatre and will go nowhere, but if it did: Disney pays for a host of services (police, fire, etc) that would instead be passed on to local counties, so it's possible that the company comes out in the black
  - joemazerino 5y ago
    It shouldn't be surprising that DeSantis says he's punishing Disney as the company is actively attempting to sabotage his political moves. I'm sure there is more nuance to the action either way.
    - jtgeibel 5y ago
      What exactly is Disney's transgression here? This seems to stem from a single statement about a single bill. Is there more to this? Otherwise this seems completely disproportionate.

V__ 5y ago

I'm gonna quote a comment from the reddit user Cyber_Dan, which I think is good context to this situation: > I don't think a lot of people understand what Reedy Creek is or why its a controversy so here's a simple explanation from a long time Florida resident. When Disney first looked at breaking ground in Central Florida for a new theme park in the 1960s, the area was virtually uninhabited with the exception of some small rural farming communities, of which Reedy Creek was one. The counties of Orange and Osceola did not have the resources to provide all the infrastructure and services that Walt Disney World would need. So Disney offered to provide all those services under the provision that they be the sole administrator over them since neither county that Walt Disney World sprawls into had the resources to do so. So the Florida Legislature came up with the Reedy Creek Improvement District which functions as a semi-independent municipality under the administration of the Walt Disney Corporation. > There are legal provisions in the law that specify the scope of this district, how this district is managed and how it may be dissolved; all of which Governor DeSantis and the Florida Legislature just violated with the bill they proposed and passed. Disney knows this, the Florida Legislature knows this, odds are this will be fought in court and won by Disney and thrown out as unconstitutional because the state just violated their own law. Plus, Reedy Creek is a municipality with Florida citizens residing in it and any change to their district would have to be approved by those voters, approval the State of Florida did not get or even ask for. > Additionally, the biggest benefit to Walt Disney Corp is that managing their own municipality allowed them to bypass red tape in typical county zoning and permitting. However, at this point Walt Disney basically owns both Orange and Osceola county and should they be forced to take over administration of Reedy Creek odds are they will create special provisions for Walt Disney Corp. However, both Orange and Osceola would have to absorb any debts the Reedy Creek Improvement District currently holds, which is about 2 billion dollars in bond debt which will have to be immediately reimbursed to the bond holds if the district is dissolved. That, along with the infrastructure costs to maintaining Reedy Creek which would also be passed along to the counties which amount to a tax assessment being levied against every resident in Orange county by about 4000 per year. If Osceola assumes the debt, it would be even higher because that county has a smaller population. The 2 counties will have to sort out who is responsible for what since Walt Disney World sprawls across both counties. > Disney would face a higher tax liability, however, the Florida Legislature passed a law several years ago that limits the amount that counties could raise their property taxes to no more than 10% per year. That would not be enough to cover Reedy Creek's bond debt even with Disney included. Basically Florida would be taking over 2 billion in debt off Disney's books and dropping it on to the Florida taxpayers in central Florida. Disney would also have the added benefit of no longer need to pay for the expense of maintaining the district (fire services, police, medical, sewage, roads, etc) which will also fall onto the Florida taxpayer. All of these savings disney stands to gain more than offsets whatever small tax increase they would pay due to the cap. > Basically this entire stunt is doomed to fail. Its a political game that will go nowhere. Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/u8ap8q/florida_state_senate_passes_bill_that_would/i5mal5j/ https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/u8ap8q/florida_st...

specialist 5y ago

Unchecked power begats purges. DeSantis is just following the tyrant playbook. Keeping the loyal opposition around, the Democrats & misc Liberals in this case, is the only thing that's preventing an all out Republican civil war.