4 ms·

I think pressing J is unchanged, only when holding does it behave as ctrl. That's probably unnoticeable (as an emacs user and not a vim user :) ).

sph 4y ago
That means that 'j' is entered upon key release, while all other keys are activated upon key press. That slightly different behaviour on just one key would make me go crazy.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  You could easily configure all of your keys to behave that way with no loss in functionality. The whole concept of "key press" versus "key hold" assumes that a "press" is released instantaneously.
  - tlb 4y ago
    No loss in functionality, but it adds tens of milliseconds of delay when typing. Also, when using Emacs I often press and release the ctrl key without completing a control sequence, like when I'm thinking about scrolling but change my mind. I'd be splattering Js all through my source files.
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      > No loss in functionality, but it adds tens of milliseconds of delay when typing. Well, no, it would add zero milliseconds -- and zero nanoseconds -- of delay. The difference between key press and key release does not affect typing at all. You're not waiting to see what happens after you press T before you go on to pressing I (or whatever letter you're following it with).
      - sph 4y ago
        I disagree. Input-on-key-release feels very bad if you're used to it being on key press like all computers do. It feels like the keys are sticky and unresponsive. It's hard to explain unless you try it.
      - tlb 4y ago
        When I'm typing normally, keys are down for around 60 mS each. Having the software respond at the end of that 60 mS instead of the beginning adds about 60 mS of delay.
    - rgoulter 4y ago
      I can't discern the difference between those tens of milliseconds of delay. Worth considering the time (and effort) saved from moving the hands to the modifier keys. It's nice being able to have the hands remain on the home row. EDIT: rather, there's hardly any speed lost (if any); but there's a big amount of comfort gained from using home row mods. > Also, when using Emacs I often press and release the ctrl key without completing a control sequence The behaviour is customisable, but e.g. if you're holding the tap-hold key for longer than a 'tap', then it'd still register as a 'hold' rather than sending a 'tap'.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  You only notice the difference when holding a key for auto repeat, which I almost never do, much less with alphabet keys.
  - toast0 4y ago
    You may also notice if you're typing a word; say 'jeans' and you press the e before you release the j. On a typewritter, you must release the first key before you press another, or you get a jam. On a computer, you don't usually have to, but with this configuration, it gets tricky. If j becomes control when held, you've got to start buffering key presses when j is pressed, and only once j is released (or held long enough) can you send the key presses on. I hope you're not playing a game which uses j, because your inputs now have jitter.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - rgoulter 4y ago
      > but with this configuration, it gets tricky. It may also be unclear what you intend if while holding 'j', you start pressing another key. The behaviour is customisable. https://docs.qmk.fm/#/tap_hold?id=tap-or-hold-decision-modes https://docs.qmk.fm/#/tap_hold?id=tap-or-hold-decision-modes > I hope you're not playing a game which uses j, because your inputs now have jitter. Well, if you've got tap-hold on the keys "ASD", then games with WASD movement will be hard to play. :) -- I have a gaming layer without the tap-hold keys, separate from the normal typing layer.

sph 4y ago

That means that 'j' is entered upon key release, while all other keys are activated upon key press. That slightly different behaviour on just one key would make me go crazy.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
You could easily configure all of your keys to behave that way with no loss in functionality. The whole concept of "key press" versus "key hold" assumes that a "press" is released instantaneously.
- tlb 4y ago
  No loss in functionality, but it adds tens of milliseconds of delay when typing. Also, when using Emacs I often press and release the ctrl key without completing a control sequence, like when I'm thinking about scrolling but change my mind. I'd be splattering Js all through my source files.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > No loss in functionality, but it adds tens of milliseconds of delay when typing. Well, no, it would add zero milliseconds -- and zero nanoseconds -- of delay. The difference between key press and key release does not affect typing at all. You're not waiting to see what happens after you press T before you go on to pressing I (or whatever letter you're following it with).
    - sph 4y ago
      I disagree. Input-on-key-release feels very bad if you're used to it being on key press like all computers do. It feels like the keys are sticky and unresponsive. It's hard to explain unless you try it.
    - tlb 4y ago
      When I'm typing normally, keys are down for around 60 mS each. Having the software respond at the end of that 60 mS instead of the beginning adds about 60 mS of delay.
  - rgoulter 4y ago
    I can't discern the difference between those tens of milliseconds of delay. Worth considering the time (and effort) saved from moving the hands to the modifier keys. It's nice being able to have the hands remain on the home row. EDIT: rather, there's hardly any speed lost (if any); but there's a big amount of comfort gained from using home row mods. > Also, when using Emacs I often press and release the ctrl key without completing a control sequence The behaviour is customisable, but e.g. if you're holding the tap-hold key for longer than a 'tap', then it'd still register as a 'hold' rather than sending a 'tap'.
pfortuny 4y ago
You only notice the difference when holding a key for auto repeat, which I almost never do, much less with alphabet keys.
- toast0 4y ago
  You may also notice if you're typing a word; say 'jeans' and you press the e before you release the j. On a typewritter, you must release the first key before you press another, or you get a jam. On a computer, you don't usually have to, but with this configuration, it gets tricky. If j becomes control when held, you've got to start buffering key presses when j is pressed, and only once j is released (or held long enough) can you send the key presses on. I hope you're not playing a game which uses j, because your inputs now have jitter.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rgoulter 4y ago
    > but with this configuration, it gets tricky. It may also be unclear what you intend if while holding 'j', you start pressing another key. The behaviour is customisable. https://docs.qmk.fm/#/tap_hold?id=tap-or-hold-decision-modes https://docs.qmk.fm/#/tap_hold?id=tap-or-hold-decision-modes > I hope you're not playing a game which uses j, because your inputs now have jitter. Well, if you've got tap-hold on the keys "ASD", then games with WASD movement will be hard to play. :) -- I have a gaming layer without the tap-hold keys, separate from the normal typing layer.