3 ms·

They removed references to it from their website (I believe after backlash), but here's an archived link to it: https://web.archive.org/web/20200715132542/https

They removed references to it from their website (I believe after backlash), but here's an archived link to it: https://web.archive.org/web/20200715132542/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200715132542/https://blacklive... The relevant bit: > We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

hairofadog 4y ago
The key word you’re missing in your interpretation of that quote is “requirement”. I may love hiking, but I am not in favor of requiring hiking for everyone. I imagine this is in response to various conservative proposals over the years to put forth (straight) marriage as a solution to various unrelated societal ills.
- FFRefresh 4y ago
  My comment didn't feature an interpretation, it was directly quoting the BLM site... but now I will offer an interpretation based on your comment: I'm not in favor of requiring hiking or certain family structures either. Serious question, is there a requirement for the nuclear family? Let us not conflate norms and legal requirements. Where I live, there is most certainly a norm around hiking being a really positive thing that you should do, and it's associated with being higher status (local fashion trends even favor looking like you are a hiker). Not everyone is a hiker, and some people don't like hiking. But I'm okay with the norm existing, but would never support a requirement for it.
  - atq2119 4y ago
    > Serious question, is there a requirement for the nuclear family? The answer depends on where you are. It's nowhere as strict as "if you have a child outside a nuclear family, you go to jail". But there may be all sorts of softer pressures in place. Now, I don't think having such pressures is necessarily bad in all places. It becomes bad when it's a "one solution fits all" approach, and the pressure is applied even in situations where dissolving a traditional nuclear family would be in the participants' (especially the children's) best interests. Putting myself in the shoes of black folks, I can certainly see how certain conservative initiatives cross that line.
skinnymuch 4y ago
This isn’t “the” BLM site. This is a site that is purportedly onboard the BLM movement. That’s an important distinction.
- FFRefresh 4y ago
  Why did you ask for evidence in the first place of the claim that BLM held a position against the nuclear family if you wouldn't accept any evidence? If your position is just a flavor of the 'No true scotsman' fallacy, why even bother? Why not just come out and say "There can never be a true BLM source! You can never cite an authoritative position from BLM! You cannot cite anything because there are many local chapters, and the movement can exist even independently of that! BLM can never be criticized thusly for any positions! Ha!" That is your position here, no? It ignores that THERE IS a central hub for the BLM network. And the website for this is blacklivesmatter.com, which is what I cited. This is the primary website for the BLM org and movement. It is by far, the most heavily trafficked website in the BLM movement. BLM started with the group of people who created the org for which the website serves as the face for. Calling it 'purportedly onboard' the BLM movement is incredibly ignorant of its history. Yes, there is a broader network. But this is the center of that network. This central hub (which runs blacklivesmatter.com) took in $90 million in donations in 2020. And it then distributed $21.7 million of that to local chapters.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    Anecdotes mean just what they mean. However as some one most closely aligned to leftys vs other political identity or group, I’ve not been around too many leftists so focused on BLM specifically in a central/organized way or treat it as such. > That is your position here, no? Not at all. Your core point revolves around me thinking about and using local chapters as a core defense. I didn’t even know that was a thing for all of this. The comment revolves around various assumption. Pointing to a caricature of an immature left wing person who craves getting one under everyone to the right of them. Like “if you wouldn’t accept any evidence”. I asked because I don’t particularly care much about BLM a specifically because caring about oppressed minorities has always been a core tenant. i knew little about this most famous blm group**. Similarly, I can’t remember the last video feed in the past year I’ve gotten from YouTube that was about BLM from a lefty source. Except for two specifically focused on black issues in America. ** I searched “blm vs black lives matter group”. I see a majority of front page news and other stuff being conservatives foaming out about stuff. As if a lot of the issues and “facts” of BLM centralization are something greatly discussed by all sides. Not just the people upset over it. Now I more likely believe how big this org is. If they get this much attention from center and right leaning media. Not dissimilar to the over exaggeration done by the mostly centrist and neoliberal media of focusing on Trump so much (though definitely including more left wing media a lot too). Still. Not every one on the left or sympathetic to certain issues thinks this way. Nor is every one on the left a smarmy smart ass. People aren’t a monolith.

hairofadog 4y ago

The key word you’re missing in your interpretation of that quote is “requirement”. I may love hiking, but I am not in favor of requiring hiking for everyone. I imagine this is in response to various conservative proposals over the years to put forth (straight) marriage as a solution to various unrelated societal ills.

FFRefresh 4y ago
My comment didn't feature an interpretation, it was directly quoting the BLM site... but now I will offer an interpretation based on your comment: I'm not in favor of requiring hiking or certain family structures either. Serious question, is there a requirement for the nuclear family? Let us not conflate norms and legal requirements. Where I live, there is most certainly a norm around hiking being a really positive thing that you should do, and it's associated with being higher status (local fashion trends even favor looking like you are a hiker). Not everyone is a hiker, and some people don't like hiking. But I'm okay with the norm existing, but would never support a requirement for it.
- atq2119 4y ago
  > Serious question, is there a requirement for the nuclear family? The answer depends on where you are. It's nowhere as strict as "if you have a child outside a nuclear family, you go to jail". But there may be all sorts of softer pressures in place. Now, I don't think having such pressures is necessarily bad in all places. It becomes bad when it's a "one solution fits all" approach, and the pressure is applied even in situations where dissolving a traditional nuclear family would be in the participants' (especially the children's) best interests. Putting myself in the shoes of black folks, I can certainly see how certain conservative initiatives cross that line.

skinnymuch 4y ago

This isn’t “the” BLM site. This is a site that is purportedly onboard the BLM movement. That’s an important distinction.

FFRefresh 4y ago
Why did you ask for evidence in the first place of the claim that BLM held a position against the nuclear family if you wouldn't accept any evidence? If your position is just a flavor of the 'No true scotsman' fallacy, why even bother? Why not just come out and say "There can never be a true BLM source! You can never cite an authoritative position from BLM! You cannot cite anything because there are many local chapters, and the movement can exist even independently of that! BLM can never be criticized thusly for any positions! Ha!" That is your position here, no? It ignores that THERE IS a central hub for the BLM network. And the website for this is blacklivesmatter.com, which is what I cited. This is the primary website for the BLM org and movement. It is by far, the most heavily trafficked website in the BLM movement. BLM started with the group of people who created the org for which the website serves as the face for. Calling it 'purportedly onboard' the BLM movement is incredibly ignorant of its history. Yes, there is a broader network. But this is the center of that network. This central hub (which runs blacklivesmatter.com) took in $90 million in donations in 2020. And it then distributed $21.7 million of that to local chapters.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  Anecdotes mean just what they mean. However as some one most closely aligned to leftys vs other political identity or group, I’ve not been around too many leftists so focused on BLM specifically in a central/organized way or treat it as such. > That is your position here, no? Not at all. Your core point revolves around me thinking about and using local chapters as a core defense. I didn’t even know that was a thing for all of this. The comment revolves around various assumption. Pointing to a caricature of an immature left wing person who craves getting one under everyone to the right of them. Like “if you wouldn’t accept any evidence”. I asked because I don’t particularly care much about BLM a specifically because caring about oppressed minorities has always been a core tenant. i knew little about this most famous blm group**. Similarly, I can’t remember the last video feed in the past year I’ve gotten from YouTube that was about BLM from a lefty source. Except for two specifically focused on black issues in America. ** I searched “blm vs black lives matter group”. I see a majority of front page news and other stuff being conservatives foaming out about stuff. As if a lot of the issues and “facts” of BLM centralization are something greatly discussed by all sides. Not just the people upset over it. Now I more likely believe how big this org is. If they get this much attention from center and right leaning media. Not dissimilar to the over exaggeration done by the mostly centrist and neoliberal media of focusing on Trump so much (though definitely including more left wing media a lot too). Still. Not every one on the left or sympathetic to certain issues thinks this way. Nor is every one on the left a smarmy smart ass. People aren’t a monolith.