8 ms·

I think it actually means redefining success. Today, success means having disposable income, but that's not the success that children need. They need stable hou

I think it actually means redefining success. Today, success means having disposable income, but that's not the success that children need. They need stable households, and that can be obtained even with low paying jobs, though obviously it's easier with high paying jobs. But it's impossible if the will to work isn't there, and the only way to get that will is to instill a good work ethic and proper, family-oriented goals.

coryrc 5y ago
> that can be obtained even with low paying jobs Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America. There's no stability to be found for low-paid workers. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-minimum-wage/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-mini...
- VLM 5y ago
  Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bedroom would take $21 as a nationwide average; although I live in a lower cost of living area. The government "Fair Market Rent" is sort of median quality housing. If the goal is to demand that even people at the literal bottom of the barrel of income in the 0-th percentile live in 50th percentile housing, then who will live in the 0th to 50th percentile of housing. A goal of having the lowest percentile in any group meet median achievements is inherently impossible. There does not seem to be any actionable plan proposed; to me its obvious that raising the legal minimum wage from $7 to perhaps $8 will not improve anything if the absolute bottom of the barrel of jobs in low paying areas is already $19/hr AND there is no supply so there are unfilled jobs. Another obvious proposal is building more housing to crash the price, and the ownership class is not going to tolerate that behavior LOL. As a thought experiment, if the living conditions are indeed unlivable as the guilt inducing article proposes, fine, lets run with that theory that its true nobody can live that way, then how are so many people living that way?
  - giantg2 5y ago
    2% of hourly workers make federal minimum wage or lower according to BLS numbers. Many lower paying jobs (Walmart, McDonalds, etc) pay about $10 an hour. They generally don't provide benefits. So even if you get two jobs to fill a 40hr week, you're stuck with the medical costs. Good luck paying for housing and medical coverage (transportation, taxes, retirement, etc) at $20k per year in most areas. Hopefully you can get on assistance to help out. There are a variety of issues and possible improvements to help the situation, not just the two you mentioned.
    - VLM 5y ago
      That 2% consists of people like my teenagers, both of which cannot afford housing and medical coverage by themselves and as Dad, I'm personally quite well acquainted with how they get financial assistance (LOL). And no, McD does not pay $10/hr, I live in a low cost of living area away from the coasts and the sign on the door opposite my grocery store lists $15/hr right next to the sign that they're cutting hours due to lack of employees. On the coasts I'm sure its higher although cost of living is probably higher.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        Your teenagers work fulltime? The BLS numbers for that 2% was looking at fulltime hourly workers. I'm sure there are plenty of part time people that would increase that 2%.
    - Der_Einzige 5y ago
      That 2% also includes disabled people where they can legally be paid below minimum wage. E.g. Walmart greeters with downs sydrome...
  - defterGoose 5y ago
    So basically what you're saying is that there should in theory be no floor to QOL, but then tacitly agreeing with the hand-wringing about how society (a construct based almost entirely around QOL) is faltering?
  - 5y ago
giantg2 5y ago
If both parents are spending all their time at work just to make ends meet (or workaholic executives), how can that be stable? When will they have time to guide and develop the child?
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  In a dystopic society, women would use sperm banks to get pregnant and then give the children to be raised by the state, "in the spirit of a liberal society". Rules will tell how many girls are needed and how many boys are needed. Rules will also avoid overpopulation in order to reduce pollution and protect the nature. Meanwhile men will work full time in order to maintain such a noble society. Being a man and not working would be a crime. Leaders would be appointed only amongst females because men are oppressive and violent.

coryrc 5y ago

> that can be obtained even with low paying jobs Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America. There's no stability to be found for low-paid workers. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-minimum-wage/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-mini...

VLM 5y ago
Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bedroom would take $21 as a nationwide average; although I live in a lower cost of living area. The government "Fair Market Rent" is sort of median quality housing. If the goal is to demand that even people at the literal bottom of the barrel of income in the 0-th percentile live in 50th percentile housing, then who will live in the 0th to 50th percentile of housing. A goal of having the lowest percentile in any group meet median achievements is inherently impossible. There does not seem to be any actionable plan proposed; to me its obvious that raising the legal minimum wage from $7 to perhaps $8 will not improve anything if the absolute bottom of the barrel of jobs in low paying areas is already $19/hr AND there is no supply so there are unfilled jobs. Another obvious proposal is building more housing to crash the price, and the ownership class is not going to tolerate that behavior LOL. As a thought experiment, if the living conditions are indeed unlivable as the guilt inducing article proposes, fine, lets run with that theory that its true nobody can live that way, then how are so many people living that way?
- giantg2 5y ago
  2% of hourly workers make federal minimum wage or lower according to BLS numbers. Many lower paying jobs (Walmart, McDonalds, etc) pay about $10 an hour. They generally don't provide benefits. So even if you get two jobs to fill a 40hr week, you're stuck with the medical costs. Good luck paying for housing and medical coverage (transportation, taxes, retirement, etc) at $20k per year in most areas. Hopefully you can get on assistance to help out. There are a variety of issues and possible improvements to help the situation, not just the two you mentioned.
  - VLM 5y ago
    That 2% consists of people like my teenagers, both of which cannot afford housing and medical coverage by themselves and as Dad, I'm personally quite well acquainted with how they get financial assistance (LOL). And no, McD does not pay $10/hr, I live in a low cost of living area away from the coasts and the sign on the door opposite my grocery store lists $15/hr right next to the sign that they're cutting hours due to lack of employees. On the coasts I'm sure its higher although cost of living is probably higher.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Your teenagers work fulltime? The BLS numbers for that 2% was looking at fulltime hourly workers. I'm sure there are plenty of part time people that would increase that 2%.
  - Der_Einzige 5y ago
    That 2% also includes disabled people where they can legally be paid below minimum wage. E.g. Walmart greeters with downs sydrome...
- defterGoose 5y ago
  So basically what you're saying is that there should in theory be no floor to QOL, but then tacitly agreeing with the hand-wringing about how society (a construct based almost entirely around QOL) is faltering?
- 5y ago

giantg2 5y ago

If both parents are spending all their time at work just to make ends meet (or workaholic executives), how can that be stable? When will they have time to guide and develop the child?

DeathArrow 5y ago
In a dystopic society, women would use sperm banks to get pregnant and then give the children to be raised by the state, "in the spirit of a liberal society". Rules will tell how many girls are needed and how many boys are needed. Rules will also avoid overpopulation in order to reduce pollution and protect the nature. Meanwhile men will work full time in order to maintain such a noble society. Being a man and not working would be a crime. Leaders would be appointed only amongst females because men are oppressive and violent.