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I'm 100% sure you're not part of such a community. Neither am I, of course :) When polled, poor black people want more policing, despite also agreeing with muc

I'm 100% sure you're not part of such a community. Neither am I, of course :) When polled, poor black people want more policing, despite also agreeing with much of the defunder critique. Knowing both options, they prefer flawed policing to being ruled by criminal gangs.

pydry 5y ago
Im not American. The Americans I do know who really hate defund are the very definition of latte swilling liberals complaining about crime going up in their nice suburbs in SF, Portland and Seattle while... complaining bitterly about rich white liberals. The one supporter I do know lives a few blocks from George Floyd although the slogan seems to mean something different to her (transfer funds and responsibilities for mental health to social service departments).
- softcactus 5y ago
  That's what most people mean when they say "defund". The problem is that America has an issue with being reactive instead of proactive. Instead of treating drugs and crime as an economics issue and getting ahead of it with social policies, we react to it after the fact and criminalize everything and pay for a standing army with zero accountability. Creating an arms race between gangs and police, with the average citizen paying twice-- once with their taxes and again with their freedoms.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    At least it's clear what Republicans mean by "Defund Planned Parenthood". If you have to keep explaining "when I say X, I really mean Y", you should maybe stop saying X.
    - softcactus 5y ago
      "Reallocate Police Budgets" doesn't have the same staying power.
dghlsakjg 5y ago
I’m affluent but grew up in an inner city. I NEVER had a positive experience with the police. Neutral was as good as it got. Wanting more policing and wanting to defund the current system are not oppositional. I want more cops doing shit that matters and less of the current police department.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  You prefer the third option of a much improved police force. I would love that too. But this is not a practical real world option. In the present, you fight crime with the police system you have.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  I grew up in rural America and I would describe my experiences with police in the same terms. Of course, the purpose of policing is to deter crime, not give “positive experiences”. And thanks in large part to these luxury beliefs, police departments are doing less preventative policing (routine traffic stops, etc) especially in communities of color for fear of being the next Ferguson, and consequently violent crime is soaring all over the country.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    Thinking back on it, I never had a positive experience in terms of outcome. Positive experience in terms of interaction would have been the consolation prize. Pulling over more people for expired tags and other pretext stops is hardly what we needed more of. I once had an officer decline to take a copy of video of my vehicle being stolen since he said it wasn’t going to be investigated anyway. How does a department like that still have time to hand out turn signal tickets, and pop people for going 10 over at the bottom of a hill?
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      The problem with analyzing based on your own experience is that you don’t experience the crime that you don’t experience. The evidence coming out of this crime wave does seem to suggest that preventative policing works even if it leaves you and I with a bad taste in our mouths when we’re the ones pulled over.
softcactus 5y ago
I have heard this cited numerous times, but have never seen an actual source.

pydry 5y ago

Im not American. The Americans I do know who really hate defund are the very definition of latte swilling liberals complaining about crime going up in their nice suburbs in SF, Portland and Seattle while... complaining bitterly about rich white liberals. The one supporter I do know lives a few blocks from George Floyd although the slogan seems to mean something different to her (transfer funds and responsibilities for mental health to social service departments).

softcactus 5y ago
That's what most people mean when they say "defund". The problem is that America has an issue with being reactive instead of proactive. Instead of treating drugs and crime as an economics issue and getting ahead of it with social policies, we react to it after the fact and criminalize everything and pay for a standing army with zero accountability. Creating an arms race between gangs and police, with the average citizen paying twice-- once with their taxes and again with their freedoms.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  At least it's clear what Republicans mean by "Defund Planned Parenthood". If you have to keep explaining "when I say X, I really mean Y", you should maybe stop saying X.
  - softcactus 5y ago
    "Reallocate Police Budgets" doesn't have the same staying power.

dghlsakjg 5y ago

I’m affluent but grew up in an inner city. I NEVER had a positive experience with the police. Neutral was as good as it got. Wanting more policing and wanting to defund the current system are not oppositional. I want more cops doing shit that matters and less of the current police department.

BurningFrog 5y ago
You prefer the third option of a much improved police force. I would love that too. But this is not a practical real world option. In the present, you fight crime with the police system you have.
throwaway894345 5y ago
I grew up in rural America and I would describe my experiences with police in the same terms. Of course, the purpose of policing is to deter crime, not give “positive experiences”. And thanks in large part to these luxury beliefs, police departments are doing less preventative policing (routine traffic stops, etc) especially in communities of color for fear of being the next Ferguson, and consequently violent crime is soaring all over the country.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  Thinking back on it, I never had a positive experience in terms of outcome. Positive experience in terms of interaction would have been the consolation prize. Pulling over more people for expired tags and other pretext stops is hardly what we needed more of. I once had an officer decline to take a copy of video of my vehicle being stolen since he said it wasn’t going to be investigated anyway. How does a department like that still have time to hand out turn signal tickets, and pop people for going 10 over at the bottom of a hill?
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    The problem with analyzing based on your own experience is that you don’t experience the crime that you don’t experience. The evidence coming out of this crime wave does seem to suggest that preventative policing works even if it leaves you and I with a bad taste in our mouths when we’re the ones pulled over.

softcactus 5y ago

I have heard this cited numerous times, but have never seen an actual source.