5 ms·

when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person. i don’t know if expectations being set bec

when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person. i don’t know if expectations being set because of being a man makes any sense, but i firmly believe you must have goals and morals. i think we spend a lot of time struggling with the roles we’re assigned. no for any deep reason, it’s just work and people tend to hate it. i think it comes down to the intent of the parent in having a child. to a point of course, if you’re in your thirties and refuse to grow up. it’s hard to grow up when you were raised poorly by a sibling because your parents weren’t interested.

ekianjo 4y ago
> when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person. That does not make any sense. Most older generations did not choose to have children (certainly not as much as we do) and it did not result in generations being "disaffected". If anything that's exactly the opposite - we are the generation when we have full control of who gets born and there's never been more unhappy families in History than now.
- huffmsa 4y ago
  > Most older generations did not choose to have children Birth control and family planning aren't a new invention.
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    well they're newer than Television if you're talking about effective birth control and family planning. And I mean effectiveness has risen since the first invention of the pill to where you really can control and plan things pretty well.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      And Family Planning is as old as old as the Hills if you're talking about marriage as a technology to provide a stable household for children
      - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
        well I mean that is not normally what one is talking about when using the phrase family planning in the modern era.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        Yes and No. There is "family planning" as a euphemism for contraception and abortion, but there is also a long history of using the term in a literal sense that includes financial planning, counseling, ect. Hence, "Birth control and family planning"
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    Oh come on. That's 50 years ago, and I hope you know people who lived before then in your family.
  - Rapzid 4y ago
    Sex is still the primary reason for having a child today just as it was 50 years ago lol.
mc32 4y ago
Previously people who bore kids but didn’t plan on it were peer pressured by society to carry their water and take responsibility and support them to some degree. Divorced parents faced significant pushback. These days, at least it seems, without this social pressure people feel free to leave more readily before giving raising their family a greater priority. The priority is their convenience and not the new generation. Also people just don’t apply this social pressure on their peers so much, so there is less consideration when seeking divorce or plain abandonment.
- giantg2 4y ago
  One interesting thing about the ease of marriage divorce in my mind is the incongruence of the entry/exit. Want to get married? Pay a small fee at the courthouse and get a license in a day or so. Very easy, very low cost. Want to get divorced? The process can take over a year, cost tens of thousands or more, involve court appearances, and dividing property. Granted both of these actions are easier or less restrictive than they were in the past. Although the lawyer fees seem to be higher, at least when considering real wages have decreased since the 70s. With the prevalence of divorce, you would think that prenups could be made a part of the marriage license so that lawyer costs, court costs, etc could be minimized. It might even cause some people to reconsider a bad marriage. You could go farther with premarital counseling if this is really a concern. I don't know of those are really good ideas or not. Personally, I think the government should get out of the marriage business altogether. With the wide variety of living arrangements and expectations for what a marriage is, I think it might work better for people to enter into private marriage contracts. On the social pressures and unwanted kids part, I wonder how mate selection plays into this. Sure, there was free love in the 70s, but I still imagine that premarital sex was not as common as it has become today. I wonder how women's expectations of men have changed during this time, especially for when to allow for sex. I also wonder how the expectations men (and society) have of women have changed, especially in terms of work/home/financial responsibilities and contraception/abortion options.

ekianjo 4y ago

> when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person. That does not make any sense. Most older generations did not choose to have children (certainly not as much as we do) and it did not result in generations being "disaffected". If anything that's exactly the opposite - we are the generation when we have full control of who gets born and there's never been more unhappy families in History than now.

huffmsa 4y ago
> Most older generations did not choose to have children Birth control and family planning aren't a new invention.
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  well they're newer than Television if you're talking about effective birth control and family planning. And I mean effectiveness has risen since the first invention of the pill to where you really can control and plan things pretty well.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    And Family Planning is as old as old as the Hills if you're talking about marriage as a technology to provide a stable household for children
    - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
      well I mean that is not normally what one is talking about when using the phrase family planning in the modern era.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        Yes and No. There is "family planning" as a euphemism for contraception and abortion, but there is also a long history of using the term in a literal sense that includes financial planning, counseling, ect. Hence, "Birth control and family planning"
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Oh come on. That's 50 years ago, and I hope you know people who lived before then in your family.
- Rapzid 4y ago
  Sex is still the primary reason for having a child today just as it was 50 years ago lol.

mc32 4y ago

Previously people who bore kids but didn’t plan on it were peer pressured by society to carry their water and take responsibility and support them to some degree. Divorced parents faced significant pushback. These days, at least it seems, without this social pressure people feel free to leave more readily before giving raising their family a greater priority. The priority is their convenience and not the new generation. Also people just don’t apply this social pressure on their peers so much, so there is less consideration when seeking divorce or plain abandonment.

giantg2 4y ago
One interesting thing about the ease of marriage divorce in my mind is the incongruence of the entry/exit. Want to get married? Pay a small fee at the courthouse and get a license in a day or so. Very easy, very low cost. Want to get divorced? The process can take over a year, cost tens of thousands or more, involve court appearances, and dividing property. Granted both of these actions are easier or less restrictive than they were in the past. Although the lawyer fees seem to be higher, at least when considering real wages have decreased since the 70s. With the prevalence of divorce, you would think that prenups could be made a part of the marriage license so that lawyer costs, court costs, etc could be minimized. It might even cause some people to reconsider a bad marriage. You could go farther with premarital counseling if this is really a concern. I don't know of those are really good ideas or not. Personally, I think the government should get out of the marriage business altogether. With the wide variety of living arrangements and expectations for what a marriage is, I think it might work better for people to enter into private marriage contracts. On the social pressures and unwanted kids part, I wonder how mate selection plays into this. Sure, there was free love in the 70s, but I still imagine that premarital sex was not as common as it has become today. I wonder how women's expectations of men have changed during this time, especially for when to allow for sex. I also wonder how the expectations men (and society) have of women have changed, especially in terms of work/home/financial responsibilities and contraception/abortion options.