4 ms·

This kind of lapse in composure is why people think he’s unhinged. Netflix’s problem isn’t that they’re unwatchably woke, it’s that their competitors are gettin

by _zzaw 4y ago

This kind of lapse in composure is why people think he’s unhinged. Netflix’s problem isn’t that they’re unwatchably woke, it’s that their competitors are getting better and their streaming offerings—which, beyond the originals, have always been poor—are getting worse. I’m not a fan of the authoritarian, performative wokeness that he’s describing—similar to hard-right Christianity, I think that is indeed more about bullying than decency. But claiming that Netflix is “unwatchable” because of more black/gay people in shows—or, for that matter, pushing back on gratuitous nastiness—is ridiculous. This is why a lot of us were very uneasy about someone like Musk being in charge of a communication medium as influential as Twitter. It wasn’t his stance on moderation; it’s that the guy is unstable and immature, and we didn’t trust him to act responsibly.

hemreldop 4y ago
atoav 4y ago
Netflix is mostly doing bad because the market Netflix has grew big in changed. The cake is now split in more ways and the chance that someone will have one subscription for two years without hopping on and off other steaming services has gotten smaller.
aaron695 4y ago
randyrand 4y ago
> because of more black/gay people in shows That's a pretty disingenuous summary. Being woke is about much more than that.
- sli 4y ago
  You'd have a leg to stand on if shows didn't get called "woke" for sharing a single pre-production screencap featuring a single black person, but that's exactly what happens.
  - smackeyacky 4y ago
    Exactly. We now have a chunk of the population who have been trained to be hyper sensitive to anything they might perceive as an erosion of anything more progressive than Family Ties. That Elon clutches his pearls at the horror of televised diversity is unsurprising, he is a yarpie.
    - jollybean 4y ago
      There's definitely a slice of the population who'll get bent out of shape because there's 'a black cowboy'. On the other hand, Netflix actively intervenes in content and productions with DEI orientation, they'll hand backs scripts and 'require' this or that, and will also require production to meet all sorts of criteria, which may not have the effect we want. I don't think anyone is cutting cables over this but I wonder if it'd be more appropriate for everyone to chill out on telling people how to tell stories and how to make them. Maybe a better approach would be to just support good content creation in different areas without resorting to intervention - and - ignoring the obviously political kind of thing. Before 2000, particularly in the 1970's there were tons of bands with Black and White members. Tons. You just don't see that anymore. Can you think of any kind of 'groups' that have black and white dudes? It was inherently a political statement back then to be that way - but it was not overtly progressive. They were just making music! And though they were difficult times racially, mostly they were not singing about that. They sang about good times, peace, getting laid etc.. In effect the 'DEI' stuff happened, but in an organic manner, secondary to the direct orientation of 'making music'. There will always be a few 'Archie Bunker' shows to get us to think about the 'hard issues' but by and large, I think we can actually make progress without trying so hard.
  - ternifomene 4y ago
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    If that single black person is playing the legendary Greek warrior Achilles or Queen Anne Boleyn, I would argue that this is wokeness on steroids. (I know that neither of those examples happened at Netflix. But both happened fairly recently in the Anglosphere, which is probably the wokest pole of the Western world.) No one in their sane mind would portray, say, Martin Luther King as a blond Swede, or a historical Japanese Shogun as a Maori.
ternifomene 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- smackeyacky 4y ago
  Whose truth exactly? There are other narratives that can squarely point Netflix decline to the loss of 3rd party content, but thats boring and not edgy enough.
- lljk_kennedy 4y ago
  Is this “speak the truth” Elon is the same Elon who wants to stop a Twitter user from publishing his plane’s activities? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-tracking.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-...
- jollybean 4y ago
  It's not a truth, it's a perspective. Netflix has a ton of content and the vast majority of it has not a hint of 'woke'. I think what's happening is that there is definitely a bit of an SJW direction in some content, and so maybe people's radars are a bit 'too attuned' to it, and so they're more cynical or prone to be triggered. And some shows just go hard in that direction. But few. Netflix is definitely not dying because of their DEI initiatives in content. I wish they could nude a bit and be a bit more fair without directly interceding into content (FYI Netflix will send back scripts and demand more specific kinds of DEI), and doing the new Hollywood 'mandates' of representation everywhere which is a bit of a 'sledghammer' of a policy orientation.
- _zzaw 4y ago
  Um—“Netflix is unwatchable because of woke mind viruses” sounds more like a meltdown than anything remotely resembling the truth. There are millions of people who think Netflix is very watchable, and strongly support shows that acknowledge the existence of different kinds of people. (Although if Netflix starts being hardasses about password-sharing, they might find themselves with slightly fewer millions.) And your tired “anyone who dares to challenge abuse is an oppressor” routine is negligibly different from the kinds of extreme, reductive thinking that you seem to believe you’re against. Elon, like most demagogues of the public-train-wreck variety, commands a subculture of teenagers who get high off his shock value. Please try not to confuse that for actual intellectual relevance, and definitely don’t confuse it for the truth.

by _zzaw 4y ago

hemreldop 4y ago

atoav 4y ago

Netflix is mostly doing bad because the market Netflix has grew big in changed. The cake is now split in more ways and the chance that someone will have one subscription for two years without hopping on and off other steaming services has gotten smaller.

aaron695 4y ago

randyrand 4y ago

> because of more black/gay people in shows That's a pretty disingenuous summary. Being woke is about much more than that.

sli 4y ago
You'd have a leg to stand on if shows didn't get called "woke" for sharing a single pre-production screencap featuring a single black person, but that's exactly what happens.
- smackeyacky 4y ago
  Exactly. We now have a chunk of the population who have been trained to be hyper sensitive to anything they might perceive as an erosion of anything more progressive than Family Ties. That Elon clutches his pearls at the horror of televised diversity is unsurprising, he is a yarpie.
  - jollybean 4y ago
    There's definitely a slice of the population who'll get bent out of shape because there's 'a black cowboy'. On the other hand, Netflix actively intervenes in content and productions with DEI orientation, they'll hand backs scripts and 'require' this or that, and will also require production to meet all sorts of criteria, which may not have the effect we want. I don't think anyone is cutting cables over this but I wonder if it'd be more appropriate for everyone to chill out on telling people how to tell stories and how to make them. Maybe a better approach would be to just support good content creation in different areas without resorting to intervention - and - ignoring the obviously political kind of thing. Before 2000, particularly in the 1970's there were tons of bands with Black and White members. Tons. You just don't see that anymore. Can you think of any kind of 'groups' that have black and white dudes? It was inherently a political statement back then to be that way - but it was not overtly progressive. They were just making music! And though they were difficult times racially, mostly they were not singing about that. They sang about good times, peace, getting laid etc.. In effect the 'DEI' stuff happened, but in an organic manner, secondary to the direct orientation of 'making music'. There will always be a few 'Archie Bunker' shows to get us to think about the 'hard issues' but by and large, I think we can actually make progress without trying so hard.
- ternifomene 4y ago
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  If that single black person is playing the legendary Greek warrior Achilles or Queen Anne Boleyn, I would argue that this is wokeness on steroids. (I know that neither of those examples happened at Netflix. But both happened fairly recently in the Anglosphere, which is probably the wokest pole of the Western world.) No one in their sane mind would portray, say, Martin Luther King as a blond Swede, or a historical Japanese Shogun as a Maori.

ternifomene 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
smackeyacky 4y ago
Whose truth exactly? There are other narratives that can squarely point Netflix decline to the loss of 3rd party content, but thats boring and not edgy enough.
lljk_kennedy 4y ago
Is this “speak the truth” Elon is the same Elon who wants to stop a Twitter user from publishing his plane’s activities? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-tracking.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-...
jollybean 4y ago
It's not a truth, it's a perspective. Netflix has a ton of content and the vast majority of it has not a hint of 'woke'. I think what's happening is that there is definitely a bit of an SJW direction in some content, and so maybe people's radars are a bit 'too attuned' to it, and so they're more cynical or prone to be triggered. And some shows just go hard in that direction. But few. Netflix is definitely not dying because of their DEI initiatives in content. I wish they could nude a bit and be a bit more fair without directly interceding into content (FYI Netflix will send back scripts and demand more specific kinds of DEI), and doing the new Hollywood 'mandates' of representation everywhere which is a bit of a 'sledghammer' of a policy orientation.
_zzaw 4y ago
Um—“Netflix is unwatchable because of woke mind viruses” sounds more like a meltdown than anything remotely resembling the truth. There are millions of people who think Netflix is very watchable, and strongly support shows that acknowledge the existence of different kinds of people. (Although if Netflix starts being hardasses about password-sharing, they might find themselves with slightly fewer millions.) And your tired “anyone who dares to challenge abuse is an oppressor” routine is negligibly different from the kinds of extreme, reductive thinking that you seem to believe you’re against. Elon, like most demagogues of the public-train-wreck variety, commands a subculture of teenagers who get high off his shock value. Please try not to confuse that for actual intellectual relevance, and definitely don’t confuse it for the truth.