3 ms·

Is it? The Pixel 6 has a SAR of 1.4 W/Kg.

by chaosmachine 4y ago

cpncrunch 4y ago
Most of that will be blocked by the skull.
- asdff 4y ago
  Big assumption that all humans have an intact skull
  - otherotherchris 4y ago
    I feel that this is an edge case that only applies to unencrypted radio transmission in Ukraine. Please get back on topic.
scotty79 4y ago
Heat from 1.4W/kg for an hour might be significantly easier to dissipate than 4W/kg for 5 continous hours. At least that's what the back of the envelope calculations seem to suggest.
- sras-me 4y ago
  Why do you assume heat to be the bad guy here?
  - XorNot 4y ago
    Because chemically 835mhz is non ionizing radiation. It doesn't matter how much you pour in, electron and molecular orbitals will ignore it.
    - sras-me 4y ago
      By that logic photoelectricity should be impossible with non-ionising radiation, right?
  - doikor 4y ago
    We know that 835MHz is non-ionizing radiation so there isn’t really anything else than heat that it could do to cells.
    - ruined 4y ago
      are you sure? cited studies by TFA seem to indicate other effects, such as immediate changes in dopamine, GABA, and NMDA https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15571980/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15571980/
topspin 4y ago
Please provide a reference for that 1.4W/kg figure. 4.5kg human head would need 6.3W to see 1.4W/kg. A cell phone such as a pixel 6 is 2W and that power isn't all pointed directly at the head. I've found a FCC limit of 1.6W/kg. That's a limit, not what is actually experienced. Ok, so here is a list of mobile device figures: https://emfadvice.com/sar-ratings-radiation-levels-smartphones/ https://emfadvice.com/sar-ratings-radiation-levels-smartphon... Highest listed is One plus 7t Pro at 1.394W/kg. That's in the same order of magnitude as these as these NIH results. Perhaps if you need to use a mobile device for most of your waking hours try to keep it away from your head. Otherwise it's probably not a concern.
- zootboy 4y ago
  Reference: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en SAR is sort of a "maximum power density" measurement. It's not claiming to expose your entire head to that power density, just a small ~10 g measurement portion.
- Animats 4y ago
  That's in the same order of magnitude as these as these NIH results. Yes. This is worrisome. The FCC limit is 1.6W/Kg.[1] Neural damage was observed in mice at 4W/Kg. Several high-end smartphones from Apple and Google get above 1W/Kg. Those are worst-case numbers for smartphones, says the FCC. Average values are lower. Worst case for cumulative transmit energy would probably be sustained heavy upload traffic, such as streaming outgoing HD video. Transmit power is highest when near the range limit for a cell tower, since the handset increases power when more range is needed. [1] https://www.fcc.gov/general/specific-absorption-rate-sar-cellular-telephones https://www.fcc.gov/general/specific-absorption-rate-sar-cel...
  - ruined 4y ago
    check out the works cited of TFA, many of them involve 1.4-1.6W/kg SAR
  - otherotherchris 4y ago
mhh__ 4y ago
Citation? How does the phone have an exposure rated per kg?
- seszett 4y ago
  > In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 1.6 W/kg averaged over one gram of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6 (G9S9B), 1.20 W/kg for Pixel 6 (GB7N6/GR1YH) and 1.11 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when used against head with no separation and 1.20 W/kg for Pixel 6 (G9S9B) or 1.20 W/kg for Pixel 6 (GB7N6/GR1YH) and 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when against body with 1.0 cm (0.4 in) separation. In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 2.0 W/kg averaged over ten grams of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 1.00 W/kg for Pixel 6 (GB7N6/GR1YH) and 0.99 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when used against head with no separation and 1.38 W/kg for Pixel 6 and 1.40 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when against body with 5 mm (0.2 in) separation. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en-GB https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en-... Phone manufacturers are required to follow regulation in most countries on emissions with limits set in W/kg.

Is it? The Pixel 6 has a SAR of 1.4 W/Kg.

cpncrunch 4y ago

Most of that will be blocked by the skull.

asdff 4y ago
Big assumption that all humans have an intact skull
- otherotherchris 4y ago
  I feel that this is an edge case that only applies to unencrypted radio transmission in Ukraine. Please get back on topic.

scotty79 4y ago

Heat from 1.4W/kg for an hour might be significantly easier to dissipate than 4W/kg for 5 continous hours. At least that's what the back of the envelope calculations seem to suggest.

sras-me 4y ago
Why do you assume heat to be the bad guy here?
- XorNot 4y ago
  Because chemically 835mhz is non ionizing radiation. It doesn't matter how much you pour in, electron and molecular orbitals will ignore it.
  - sras-me 4y ago
    By that logic photoelectricity should be impossible with non-ionising radiation, right?
- doikor 4y ago
  We know that 835MHz is non-ionizing radiation so there isn’t really anything else than heat that it could do to cells.
  - ruined 4y ago
    are you sure? cited studies by TFA seem to indicate other effects, such as immediate changes in dopamine, GABA, and NMDA https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15571980/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15571980/

topspin 4y ago

Please provide a reference for that 1.4W/kg figure. 4.5kg human head would need 6.3W to see 1.4W/kg. A cell phone such as a pixel 6 is 2W and that power isn't all pointed directly at the head. I've found a FCC limit of 1.6W/kg. That's a limit, not what is actually experienced. Ok, so here is a list of mobile device figures: https://emfadvice.com/sar-ratings-radiation-levels-smartphones/ https://emfadvice.com/sar-ratings-radiation-levels-smartphon... Highest listed is One plus 7t Pro at 1.394W/kg. That's in the same order of magnitude as these as these NIH results. Perhaps if you need to use a mobile device for most of your waking hours try to keep it away from your head. Otherwise it's probably not a concern.

zootboy 4y ago
Reference: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en SAR is sort of a "maximum power density" measurement. It's not claiming to expose your entire head to that power density, just a small ~10 g measurement portion.
Animats 4y ago
That's in the same order of magnitude as these as these NIH results. Yes. This is worrisome. The FCC limit is 1.6W/Kg.[1] Neural damage was observed in mice at 4W/Kg. Several high-end smartphones from Apple and Google get above 1W/Kg. Those are worst-case numbers for smartphones, says the FCC. Average values are lower. Worst case for cumulative transmit energy would probably be sustained heavy upload traffic, such as streaming outgoing HD video. Transmit power is highest when near the range limit for a cell tower, since the handset increases power when more range is needed. [1] https://www.fcc.gov/general/specific-absorption-rate-sar-cellular-telephones https://www.fcc.gov/general/specific-absorption-rate-sar-cel...
- ruined 4y ago
  check out the works cited of TFA, many of them involve 1.4-1.6W/kg SAR
- otherotherchris 4y ago

mhh__ 4y ago

Citation? How does the phone have an exposure rated per kg?

seszett 4y ago
> In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 1.6 W/kg averaged over one gram of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6 (G9S9B), 1.20 W/kg for Pixel 6 (GB7N6/GR1YH) and 1.11 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when used against head with no separation and 1.20 W/kg for Pixel 6 (G9S9B) or 1.20 W/kg for Pixel 6 (GB7N6/GR1YH) and 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when against body with 1.0 cm (0.4 in) separation. In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 2.0 W/kg averaged over ten grams of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 1.00 W/kg for Pixel 6 (GB7N6/GR1YH) and 0.99 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when used against head with no separation and 1.38 W/kg for Pixel 6 and 1.40 W/kg for Pixel 6 Pro when against body with 5 mm (0.2 in) separation. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en-GB https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/10937646?hl=en-... Phone manufacturers are required to follow regulation in most countries on emissions with limits set in W/kg.