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> Promotions for example are always based on nebulous criteria that are often made up on the fly. The way this actually looks, from the management side, is tha

> Promotions for example are always based on nebulous criteria that are often made up on the fly. The way this actually looks, from the management side, is that people by and large do mediocre work, and fail to ever increase the scope or quality of the work they deliver. The manager has visibility into the work of many engineers, and can see how one person implements major features quickly, cranks out design documents, fixes a ton of bugs, helps to organize the work of their teammates, brings people together from different teams to make technical decisions... meanwhile almost everyone else takes at least two weeks for even the smallest change, can't answer simple questions about the work they're doing, they don't help their teammates in any significant way, and so on. And those people are bewildered and frustrated that they're not getting promoted.

dominotw 5y ago
> implements major features quickly, cranks out design documents, fixes a ton of bugs, helps to organize the work of their teammates, brings people together from different teams to make technical decisions This is almost superhuman. Basically combines everything from a entry level all the way to staff engineer. tons of , quickly, cranks out, helps, brings together. Sounds like a parody. Yea if this is what is required to get a promotion with 2% increase in pay, no surprise most ppl aren't motivated to step up. And managers are bewildered and frustrated why people take 2 weeks to implement a feature when they should be "cranking out" code. > And those people are bewildered and frustrated that they're not getting promoted. They shouldn't be if these superhuman requirements are clearly understood by everyone. Example of previous promotions where people achieved this and concrete examples of what you mean by "fixes tons of bugs". Not something secret in your head. What does "ton" mean to you as a manager. You should have no problem saying, You didn't get promotion because you didn't fix "tons of bugs" , end of discussion. Expecting people to read your mind and wondering why are 'bewildered' is total failure of management. >people by and large do mediocre work, and fail to ever increase the scope or quality of the work they deliver. Your explanation for why people arent performing to your expectations seems to be that they are lazy or stupid or both. I really pray i don't work for someone like this.
- khazhoux 5y ago
  > This is almost superhuman And yet as I wrote this, I had several specific people in mind, who do literally all the things I listed: they design, they code, they help organize the project, they reach out to other teams, etc. I didn't say they do all those things every day! :-) Their productivity stands out clearly above that of most of their peers. It's not just me that notices -- I've get slacks from other people on how these folks kick ass. And I've seen this at every company I've worked at. There are the top engineers who deliver the most features and functionality, at the highest quality standards, and done quickly... and then the rest of the team. > Expecting people to read your mind and wondering why are 'bewildered' is total failure of management. Of course. Goes without saying. Helping people increase their productivity --through clear communication-- is one of the main jobs of an eng manager. > Your explanation for why people arent performing to your expectations seems to be that they are lazy or stupid or both. I really pray i don't work for someone like this. I know my statement may offend egos, but again: any manager will tell you that the productivity of engineers --by any metric-- is very unevenly distributed. It's not because of laziness or stupidity. Talent and skills are simply not evenly distributed. Sucks, but that's just how it is. And then during performance-review season, promotions will go to those engineers who are performing clearly better than their job-level peers.
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  - dominotw 5y ago
    > Of course. Goes without saying. Helping people increase their productivity --through clear communication-- is one of the main jobs of an eng manager. Curious why people are 'bewildered' on your team when you have to clearly pointed out the to get promotion you have crank out maximum number of features than anyone else ( for example). There was also failure to 'increase their productivity' if they are taking 2 weeks to deliver basic stuff. I might be wrong here but sounds like management style is that of a passive observer that rewards 'top N' , punishes 'bottom N' and lets everyone else just stagnate. > I know my statement may offend egos It has nothing do with ego, you are obviously right, people are different. I just dislike 'fixed mindset' managers. Managers who have absolved themselves of any responsibility to improve or elevate their teams by proclaiming things like > people by and large do mediocre work > Talent and skills are simply not evenly distributed. Sucks, but that's just how it is. There is just no benefit to me working for someone who holds these attitudes about me and my 'talent and skills'. I simply have nothing to gain.

dominotw 5y ago

> implements major features quickly, cranks out design documents, fixes a ton of bugs, helps to organize the work of their teammates, brings people together from different teams to make technical decisions This is almost superhuman. Basically combines everything from a entry level all the way to staff engineer. tons of , quickly, cranks out, helps, brings together. Sounds like a parody. Yea if this is what is required to get a promotion with 2% increase in pay, no surprise most ppl aren't motivated to step up. And managers are bewildered and frustrated why people take 2 weeks to implement a feature when they should be "cranking out" code. > And those people are bewildered and frustrated that they're not getting promoted. They shouldn't be if these superhuman requirements are clearly understood by everyone. Example of previous promotions where people achieved this and concrete examples of what you mean by "fixes tons of bugs". Not something secret in your head. What does "ton" mean to you as a manager. You should have no problem saying, You didn't get promotion because you didn't fix "tons of bugs" , end of discussion. Expecting people to read your mind and wondering why are 'bewildered' is total failure of management. >people by and large do mediocre work, and fail to ever increase the scope or quality of the work they deliver. Your explanation for why people arent performing to your expectations seems to be that they are lazy or stupid or both. I really pray i don't work for someone like this.

khazhoux 5y ago
> This is almost superhuman And yet as I wrote this, I had several specific people in mind, who do literally all the things I listed: they design, they code, they help organize the project, they reach out to other teams, etc. I didn't say they do all those things every day! :-) Their productivity stands out clearly above that of most of their peers. It's not just me that notices -- I've get slacks from other people on how these folks kick ass. And I've seen this at every company I've worked at. There are the top engineers who deliver the most features and functionality, at the highest quality standards, and done quickly... and then the rest of the team. > Expecting people to read your mind and wondering why are 'bewildered' is total failure of management. Of course. Goes without saying. Helping people increase their productivity --through clear communication-- is one of the main jobs of an eng manager. > Your explanation for why people arent performing to your expectations seems to be that they are lazy or stupid or both. I really pray i don't work for someone like this. I know my statement may offend egos, but again: any manager will tell you that the productivity of engineers --by any metric-- is very unevenly distributed. It's not because of laziness or stupidity. Talent and skills are simply not evenly distributed. Sucks, but that's just how it is. And then during performance-review season, promotions will go to those engineers who are performing clearly better than their job-level peers.
- deleted 5y ago
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- dominotw 5y ago
  > Of course. Goes without saying. Helping people increase their productivity --through clear communication-- is one of the main jobs of an eng manager. Curious why people are 'bewildered' on your team when you have to clearly pointed out the to get promotion you have crank out maximum number of features than anyone else ( for example). There was also failure to 'increase their productivity' if they are taking 2 weeks to deliver basic stuff. I might be wrong here but sounds like management style is that of a passive observer that rewards 'top N' , punishes 'bottom N' and lets everyone else just stagnate. > I know my statement may offend egos It has nothing do with ego, you are obviously right, people are different. I just dislike 'fixed mindset' managers. Managers who have absolved themselves of any responsibility to improve or elevate their teams by proclaiming things like > people by and large do mediocre work > Talent and skills are simply not evenly distributed. Sucks, but that's just how it is. There is just no benefit to me working for someone who holds these attitudes about me and my 'talent and skills'. I simply have nothing to gain.