5 ms·

Try this one: http://www.sergeykolos.com/cusp/intro/ http://www.sergeykolos.com/cusp/intro/ Not everything you want, but at least an effort to make it close to

by skolos 18y ago

Try this one: http://www.sergeykolos.com/cusp/intro/ http://www.sergeykolos.com/cusp/intro/ Not everything you want, but at least an effort to make it close to your requirements.

tjr 18y ago
Thank you for including the part about building an executable, and the little backstory on it. When I first started in Lisp, one of my early questions too was, "how do you make an executable?" For a seasoned Lisper, that question might seem foreign, but it makes perfect sense to a C programmer. I asked the question on Usenet, trying to explain that not everyone I wanted to give programs to had Lisp on their computer. In response, someone tried to persuade me that you don't do such things with Lisp. Someone else turned out to be a Franz salesman asking, "which platforms are you talking about that don't have Lisp? we can supply Lisp on any platform!"
- gruseom 18y ago
  someone tried to persuade me that you don't do such things with Lisp This always puzzled me too. Admittedly it's less of an issue now that we can deploy programs over the web. But it's still kind of weird. Here's my speculative answer. The classic Lisp programmer doesn't care that much about building software for end users. He's more interested in amusing himself and, occasionally, other Lisp programmers. I don't mean to slam Lisp (which I love) or Lisp programmers (I am one). But I believe I have observed evidence of the above.
  - mixmax 18y ago
    The classic Lisp programmer doesn't care that much about building software for end users. He's more interested in amusing himself and, occasionally, other Lisp programmers. What a great quote !
  - schtog 18y ago
    Just mentioning, Dr Scheme has a make-exe command in the menu. But that's the only way I know how to make an exe out of a lisp program. But then I have never looked for a way either.
- anamax 18y ago
  If you were using a C compiler that produced executables that dynamically linked libc and other libraries, would you have any problems understanding that you can't run those executables on a machine that doesn't have the relevant libraries? The lisp environment is basically the run-time library for lisp programs. In some cases, that run-time can be statically linked. In others, it can't. You wouldn't find this confusing wrt C programs, so why is it a hard concept wrt Lisp programs?
  - gruseom 18y ago
    I think you're agreeing with tjr. The concept isn't hard, it makes perfect sense. What's puzzling is why it's hard to get a simple answer when you ask how to do it - or rather why the question itself is frowned upon.
  - skolos 18y ago
    I don't think anyone argues or don't understand this concept. The problem is: instead of answering the question: "How do I create executable?" people got lectured on why they shouldn't do that. I think it is much more productive for everyone just to give an answer and then, once you get the usual follow up question quickly explain why executable is big. This way lisp community might get more users. But as it stands now all we hear is complaints that lisp community is bunch of jerks - the answers people get for this simple question is one of the reason why people think that the lisp community is not friendly.
    - anamax 18y ago
      > I don't think anyone argues or don't understand this concept. The author of the original complaint clearly didn't. As he wrote: "I asked the question on Usenet, trying to explain that not everyone I wanted to give programs to had Lisp on their computer." Lisp is the run-time for lisp "executables". Just as one can't run a C executable that depends on a dynamically loaded libc on a machine that doesn't have a dynamically loadable libc, one can't run a lisp executable without the relevant run-time. This isn't an odd concept. Many windows programs depend on dlls.

by skolos 18y ago

Try this one: http://www.sergeykolos.com/cusp/intro/ http://www.sergeykolos.com/cusp/intro/ Not everything you want, but at least an effort to make it close to your requirements.

tjr 18y ago

Thank you for including the part about building an executable, and the little backstory on it. When I first started in Lisp, one of my early questions too was, "how do you make an executable?" For a seasoned Lisper, that question might seem foreign, but it makes perfect sense to a C programmer. I asked the question on Usenet, trying to explain that not everyone I wanted to give programs to had Lisp on their computer. In response, someone tried to persuade me that you don't do such things with Lisp. Someone else turned out to be a Franz salesman asking, "which platforms are you talking about that don't have Lisp? we can supply Lisp on any platform!"

gruseom 18y ago
someone tried to persuade me that you don't do such things with Lisp This always puzzled me too. Admittedly it's less of an issue now that we can deploy programs over the web. But it's still kind of weird. Here's my speculative answer. The classic Lisp programmer doesn't care that much about building software for end users. He's more interested in amusing himself and, occasionally, other Lisp programmers. I don't mean to slam Lisp (which I love) or Lisp programmers (I am one). But I believe I have observed evidence of the above.
- mixmax 18y ago
  The classic Lisp programmer doesn't care that much about building software for end users. He's more interested in amusing himself and, occasionally, other Lisp programmers. What a great quote !
- schtog 18y ago
  Just mentioning, Dr Scheme has a make-exe command in the menu. But that's the only way I know how to make an exe out of a lisp program. But then I have never looked for a way either.
anamax 18y ago
If you were using a C compiler that produced executables that dynamically linked libc and other libraries, would you have any problems understanding that you can't run those executables on a machine that doesn't have the relevant libraries? The lisp environment is basically the run-time library for lisp programs. In some cases, that run-time can be statically linked. In others, it can't. You wouldn't find this confusing wrt C programs, so why is it a hard concept wrt Lisp programs?
- gruseom 18y ago
  I think you're agreeing with tjr. The concept isn't hard, it makes perfect sense. What's puzzling is why it's hard to get a simple answer when you ask how to do it - or rather why the question itself is frowned upon.
- skolos 18y ago
  I don't think anyone argues or don't understand this concept. The problem is: instead of answering the question: "How do I create executable?" people got lectured on why they shouldn't do that. I think it is much more productive for everyone just to give an answer and then, once you get the usual follow up question quickly explain why executable is big. This way lisp community might get more users. But as it stands now all we hear is complaints that lisp community is bunch of jerks - the answers people get for this simple question is one of the reason why people think that the lisp community is not friendly.
  - anamax 18y ago
    > I don't think anyone argues or don't understand this concept. The author of the original complaint clearly didn't. As he wrote: "I asked the question on Usenet, trying to explain that not everyone I wanted to give programs to had Lisp on their computer." Lisp is the run-time for lisp "executables". Just as one can't run a C executable that depends on a dynamically loaded libc on a machine that doesn't have a dynamically loadable libc, one can't run a lisp executable without the relevant run-time. This isn't an odd concept. Many windows programs depend on dlls.