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> Promotions for example are always based on nebulous criteria that are often made up on the fly. I think you’ve worked at some very toxic work environments, b

> Promotions for example are always based on nebulous criteria that are often made up on the fly. I think you’ve worked at some very toxic work environments, but it’s a mistake to suggest that your experience is the norm. It’s funny to read HN comments about how all managers are terrible, devious people who are only out to abuse employees. Most of us managers started out as ICs. Do you really think we surrender our humanity and adopt evilness as our SOP on the day they give us our manager title? No, most of us enter management because we really like working with people and like helping people succeed. This idea that we only exist to spite employees is very childish.

daniel-cussen 5y ago
He didn't say that, he just said it's antagonistic by nature, nothing like what "you" accuse him of saying. That's fine, you know chess is like that, in fact any game where the goals are diametrically opposite. And they aren't completely diametrical, they ways in which they are not diametrical are just boring, nobody cares, yeah work hard yadda yadda, yeah be polite and show up on time, nobody cares. But like don't stop there! Work like fuck! Be gentlemanly or an assertive woman, or some analog that suits you! And show up on time like the bill from the cemetery! I did these things and didn't get promoted, but well no one time I was promoted actually, looking back...well but you gotta do it without counting the cost, real enthusiasm, a real work ethic! And knowing full well your employer might equally be, as an employee is out to leech, out to leech his employees.
civilized 5y ago
> No, most of us enter management because we really like working with people and like helping people succeed. A lot of people who go into management are just ladder climbers at companies where management means more money, status, and power. They aren't particularly interested in or good at the actual job.
- dominotw 5y ago
  yes you are right. For most of us that's the only career path out of daily drudgery of coding and learning a million js frameworks on the weekends. Its just the unfortunate reality that people are put into this desperate position. And desperate people do desperate things. For many people Being a sycophant yesman beats having to code another crud app millionth time being bossed around by someone who is a decade younger than them. I don't blame people choosing the way out. 'helping people' :)
  - civilized 5y ago
    I absolutely do not blame you. But I sure as heck am not drinking the "managers are passionate about helping people" Kool aid.

daniel-cussen 5y ago

He didn't say that, he just said it's antagonistic by nature, nothing like what "you" accuse him of saying. That's fine, you know chess is like that, in fact any game where the goals are diametrically opposite. And they aren't completely diametrical, they ways in which they are not diametrical are just boring, nobody cares, yeah work hard yadda yadda, yeah be polite and show up on time, nobody cares. But like don't stop there! Work like fuck! Be gentlemanly or an assertive woman, or some analog that suits you! And show up on time like the bill from the cemetery! I did these things and didn't get promoted, but well no one time I was promoted actually, looking back...well but you gotta do it without counting the cost, real enthusiasm, a real work ethic! And knowing full well your employer might equally be, as an employee is out to leech, out to leech his employees.

civilized 5y ago

> No, most of us enter management because we really like working with people and like helping people succeed. A lot of people who go into management are just ladder climbers at companies where management means more money, status, and power. They aren't particularly interested in or good at the actual job.

dominotw 5y ago
yes you are right. For most of us that's the only career path out of daily drudgery of coding and learning a million js frameworks on the weekends. Its just the unfortunate reality that people are put into this desperate position. And desperate people do desperate things. For many people Being a sycophant yesman beats having to code another crud app millionth time being bossed around by someone who is a decade younger than them. I don't blame people choosing the way out. 'helping people' :)
- civilized 5y ago
  I absolutely do not blame you. But I sure as heck am not drinking the "managers are passionate about helping people" Kool aid.