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I hate how Ubuntu is pushing snap. There is only disadvantages installing Firefox from snap. I am glad I am using Linux Mint which shields me from this insanity

I hate how Ubuntu is pushing snap. There is only disadvantages installing Firefox from snap. I am glad I am using Linux Mint which shields me from this insanity for now. Solutions like flatpack/snap/appimage are great (though I like snap the least) but they are for extra stuff. As much as possible should be handled by the native package manager.

timbit42 5y ago
I switched to Linux Mint.
silisili 5y ago
I just don't get why they keep doubling down on snaps. Most people really, really hate them. Most people find them slow. They used to just reply their testing doesn't find it slow, too bad so sad. I say 'used to' because I gave up long ago so haven't bothered checking.
- hypothesis 5y ago
  Are those people paying customers? Likely the idea is to let upstream to package once and ship it on all supported platforms. This way there is no constant support/packaging required from distro itself. As to why snap format specifically, that’s probably allows them to make changes as needed without asking anyone.
  - sgc 5y ago
    Right, but if in the process you take your great code and turn it into a crappy deliverable, that's on you. You don't get praise for taking serviceable software and bogging it down while locking out end users on an open source platform. You don't give a f*k. We get it. Further, if you are tunnel-vision focused on profit, remember that if you lose your end users, you lose your only means to eventual income.
    - hypothesis 5y ago
      I’m just acknowledging the reality. There is now a very nice summary comment from worik elsewhere in the thread, but basically end-users are no longer the same from Canonical’s perspective and so it’s probably wise to thank them for good things they did and move on.
      - sgc 5y ago
        These companies need to be reminded that users are the sina qua non condition for any customer whatsoever, and that their disinterested to hostile attitude towards users is a poison pill for them. "Users aren't the customer" is tired corporate-speak for "I want to be an a*hole", and needs to die. As to Canonical, the only reason I use FF anyways is because it is the lesser evil. They are far from stellar with their constant attempts to inject invasive monetizers into the browser.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GekkePrutser 5y ago
I don't think they're great at all. Maybe great for devs, not for the end user. It makes it much harder to update a vulnerable version of OpenSSL for example in all your apps. Because every maintainer needs to do update the included version in their snap. In the apt system you just update the library and that's it, everything's fixed. Also, the dynamic loader has much better performance if it doesn't need to juggle different versions. I can see the benefit for some packages that are super complex or have really special requirements. But not for every little thing like Ubuntu is doing. But Canonical doesn't own apt. They own snap and the store can be run only by them. I think they just try to insert their own IP into mainstream linux so that they can eventually charge other distros and/or commercial customers for access. I think they're just looking for ways to monetise. Inserting your IP into the mainstream is a common way to do that when it comes to FOSS. It worked for RedHat though they are a lot more successful at it. I hate this kind of monetisation, though I wouldn't mind paying for a distro if it were made with my interests in mind. Ubuntu is going the complete opposite way though. They're serving their own commercial interests first. It's not working out at all though because everyone hates snap and even ubuntu-based distros remove it. I hope they will give up soon, just the way they've given up on Unity, UpStart, Mir and Ubuntu Mobile.
- angus-prune 5y ago
  What is this startegy of monetising upstream contributions that you mention redhat having done? This isn't something I've heard of before.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Not directly, but having a lot of IP in the game makes a company much more interesting for investment and acquisition. It's viewed as an asset even though it's open source. RedHat has successfully mainstreamed some of their IP like systemd which is now practically everywhere, where Canonical has tried the same with UpStart in this case and failed. This makes RedHat somewhat of an 'authority' on Linux. And indirectly, they have been making it harder to get official versions without paying, like what they did with CentOS.
- 5y ago

timbit42 5y ago

I switched to Linux Mint.

silisili 5y ago

I just don't get why they keep doubling down on snaps. Most people really, really hate them. Most people find them slow. They used to just reply their testing doesn't find it slow, too bad so sad. I say 'used to' because I gave up long ago so haven't bothered checking.

hypothesis 5y ago
Are those people paying customers? Likely the idea is to let upstream to package once and ship it on all supported platforms. This way there is no constant support/packaging required from distro itself. As to why snap format specifically, that’s probably allows them to make changes as needed without asking anyone.
- sgc 5y ago
  Right, but if in the process you take your great code and turn it into a crappy deliverable, that's on you. You don't get praise for taking serviceable software and bogging it down while locking out end users on an open source platform. You don't give a f*k. We get it. Further, if you are tunnel-vision focused on profit, remember that if you lose your end users, you lose your only means to eventual income.
  - hypothesis 5y ago
    I’m just acknowledging the reality. There is now a very nice summary comment from worik elsewhere in the thread, but basically end-users are no longer the same from Canonical’s perspective and so it’s probably wise to thank them for good things they did and move on.
    - sgc 5y ago
      These companies need to be reminded that users are the sina qua non condition for any customer whatsoever, and that their disinterested to hostile attitude towards users is a poison pill for them. "Users aren't the customer" is tired corporate-speak for "I want to be an a*hole", and needs to die. As to Canonical, the only reason I use FF anyways is because it is the lesser evil. They are far from stellar with their constant attempts to inject invasive monetizers into the browser.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GekkePrutser 5y ago

I don't think they're great at all. Maybe great for devs, not for the end user. It makes it much harder to update a vulnerable version of OpenSSL for example in all your apps. Because every maintainer needs to do update the included version in their snap. In the apt system you just update the library and that's it, everything's fixed. Also, the dynamic loader has much better performance if it doesn't need to juggle different versions. I can see the benefit for some packages that are super complex or have really special requirements. But not for every little thing like Ubuntu is doing. But Canonical doesn't own apt. They own snap and the store can be run only by them. I think they just try to insert their own IP into mainstream linux so that they can eventually charge other distros and/or commercial customers for access. I think they're just looking for ways to monetise. Inserting your IP into the mainstream is a common way to do that when it comes to FOSS. It worked for RedHat though they are a lot more successful at it. I hate this kind of monetisation, though I wouldn't mind paying for a distro if it were made with my interests in mind. Ubuntu is going the complete opposite way though. They're serving their own commercial interests first. It's not working out at all though because everyone hates snap and even ubuntu-based distros remove it. I hope they will give up soon, just the way they've given up on Unity, UpStart, Mir and Ubuntu Mobile.

angus-prune 5y ago
What is this startegy of monetising upstream contributions that you mention redhat having done? This isn't something I've heard of before.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Not directly, but having a lot of IP in the game makes a company much more interesting for investment and acquisition. It's viewed as an asset even though it's open source. RedHat has successfully mainstreamed some of their IP like systemd which is now practically everywhere, where Canonical has tried the same with UpStart in this case and failed. This makes RedHat somewhat of an 'authority' on Linux. And indirectly, they have been making it harder to get official versions without paying, like what they did with CentOS.
5y ago