5 ms·

The phenomenon of mental illness & trauma-based clout is intriguing and I don’t really understand it. Certainly a conservative trope for the balance of my life

The phenomenon of mental illness & trauma-based clout is intriguing and I don’t really understand it. Certainly a conservative trope for the balance of my life has been one of victimhood, from the notion of a persecuted majority to the plight of small business ownership. If it’s a liberal trope to be victim of one’s genetic makeup and life experiences the logical conclusion is that one shouldn’t feel remorse for not meeting societal expectations. I resonate with that, but am also concerned that the victim’s mindset ends up being self-limiting. We really celebrate the stories of those who have overcome adversity, and oftentimes invest a lot of energy and resources into removing sources of adversity, clearing the way for others. If adversity engenders strength, why try to remove it? Alternatively if it simply expends strength and reduces human potential, why celebrate it? I have no opinion on the matter, but I’d love more information. I’d also love philosophical perspectives around these topics. Please share if you have them. On the point of TikTok self-diagnosis being popular, I’ve certainly observed that. However it’s not limited to one political group as the author suggests. The platform and its algorithm have been really affecting at exposing affine groups, without explicitly labeling them. For everyone who walks away with a dubious self-diagnoses, I believe there are ten who have found support, validation, and resources for their very real conditions. That doesn’t get media attention. It’s just like the fact that billions of dollars worth of person-to-person transactions happen through Craigslist every year, yet only the times where violence take place dominate it’s narrative. Teens behave in unpredictable ways and this is a novel time when the aggregate of their activities are on full view to the world. They will inevitably grow and evolve. I’m not going along with any doomsayers about what is happening with teens on TikTok; it’s all temporal and portends nothing in particular.

drewcoo 5y ago
> We really celebrate the stories of those who have overcome adversity Or maybe, like Mother Theresa, we value suffering. https://ivarfjeld.com/2013/03/04/mother-teresa-no-saint-but-adoring-suffering/ https://ivarfjeld.com/2013/03/04/mother-teresa-no-saint-but-...
pessimizer 5y ago
> The phenomenon of mental illness & trauma-based clout is intriguing and I don’t really understand it. The original sin is the convention that punishment for crimes shouldn't be determined by the type of crime and the guilt of the defendant. Instead, it's normal to start with that to get a guideline, then choose from within that guideline based decisively on the degree of empathy and pity that the judge and/or jury feel for the defendant. This is done by selling the defendant as disadvantaged. But selling the defendant as materially disadvantaged has a drawback: as the individuals who make up the court are drawn from extremely advantaged classes, and claims of material disadvantage make them feel bad about themselves. They generally need to hold the view that all material disadvantage can be overcome by will, having that will (to overcome material disadvantage) thereby becomes a moral standard, and lacking that will becomes a second justification for punishment. A dog can resist food when it is starving if you hit it enough, so punishment actually becomes therapeutic. With the rise of the concept of psychology and mass medicalization of normal human ranges of behavior, sentencing couldn't help but become a ritual where the defense tries to sell the defendant as mentally unhealthy and pitiable. In other words, someone physically incapable of generating the will that punishment should give them. Punishment in the justice system is ostensibly a process for deciding on the disposition of people who have committed acts considered wrong. If the anxiety, sadness, or mental instability etc. of the person committing these acts results in less punishment for being wrong, the obvious conclusion to be drawn is that mental illness and disadvantage makes you righter or more correct. Hypothetically, the person with the perfect combination of illness and disadvantage is never wrong. Which IMO is why we have an culture of opposing mobs being led by people with severe cluster B personality disorders, and people who admire those people also developing these disorders by imitation. It's why when you get called out for molesting tweens, you come out as gay, or why when the twitter mob comes for you for a racist joke you made, you release an essay about being molested as a child and describe the therapy you're about to go into. Everybody wants to be weak, because the weakest are the rightest. The problem is that these people aren't actually weak (because performance of weakness is part of social climbing), and the loudest are active crybullies. Actually weak people are still voiceless and ignored. The US is spending less on mental illness. The US has a weaker safety net.
- jollybean 5y ago
throw_m239339 5y ago
> The phenomenon of mental illness & trauma-based clout is intriguing and I don’t really understand it. Society right now likes to reward people who seek some form of victimhood, so it's no surprise people would fraudulently claim they are victims for internet brownie points, or donations... it's just an aspect of our ultra narcissistic society, tik tok driven.
- Tao331 5y ago
  I don't think it's necessarily what I'd call narcissism. We look back on history and see people championing causes and things for real victims, e.g. the civil rights movement. I think a lot of people feel a weird guilt at not having a chance to be one of these great, celebrated people or someone fighting that struggle. Or maybe it is narcissism and it's a selfish desire to say "look at how much better we left the world!" I don't know. The first time I saw it was with a friend's mother who literally said to her "why couldn't you have been a lesbian?" because she wanted to have a personal cause. One day it dawned on me that she had just missed being old enough for the '60s.
  - throw_m239339 5y ago
    > I don't think it's necessarily what I'd call narcissism. We look back on history and see people championing causes and things for real victims, e.g. the civil rights movement. I think a lot of people feel a weird guilt at not having a chance to be one of these great, celebrated people or someone fighting that struggle. We're here talking about people on social media who are faking mental illness for attention or personal gain, that's the very definition of narcissism.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

drewcoo 5y ago

> We really celebrate the stories of those who have overcome adversity Or maybe, like Mother Theresa, we value suffering. https://ivarfjeld.com/2013/03/04/mother-teresa-no-saint-but-adoring-suffering/ https://ivarfjeld.com/2013/03/04/mother-teresa-no-saint-but-...

pessimizer 5y ago

> The phenomenon of mental illness & trauma-based clout is intriguing and I don’t really understand it. The original sin is the convention that punishment for crimes shouldn't be determined by the type of crime and the guilt of the defendant. Instead, it's normal to start with that to get a guideline, then choose from within that guideline based decisively on the degree of empathy and pity that the judge and/or jury feel for the defendant. This is done by selling the defendant as disadvantaged. But selling the defendant as materially disadvantaged has a drawback: as the individuals who make up the court are drawn from extremely advantaged classes, and claims of material disadvantage make them feel bad about themselves. They generally need to hold the view that all material disadvantage can be overcome by will, having that will (to overcome material disadvantage) thereby becomes a moral standard, and lacking that will becomes a second justification for punishment. A dog can resist food when it is starving if you hit it enough, so punishment actually becomes therapeutic. With the rise of the concept of psychology and mass medicalization of normal human ranges of behavior, sentencing couldn't help but become a ritual where the defense tries to sell the defendant as mentally unhealthy and pitiable. In other words, someone physically incapable of generating the will that punishment should give them. Punishment in the justice system is ostensibly a process for deciding on the disposition of people who have committed acts considered wrong. If the anxiety, sadness, or mental instability etc. of the person committing these acts results in less punishment for being wrong, the obvious conclusion to be drawn is that mental illness and disadvantage makes you righter or more correct. Hypothetically, the person with the perfect combination of illness and disadvantage is never wrong. Which IMO is why we have an culture of opposing mobs being led by people with severe cluster B personality disorders, and people who admire those people also developing these disorders by imitation. It's why when you get called out for molesting tweens, you come out as gay, or why when the twitter mob comes for you for a racist joke you made, you release an essay about being molested as a child and describe the therapy you're about to go into. Everybody wants to be weak, because the weakest are the rightest. The problem is that these people aren't actually weak (because performance of weakness is part of social climbing), and the loudest are active crybullies. Actually weak people are still voiceless and ignored. The US is spending less on mental illness. The US has a weaker safety net.

jollybean 5y ago

throw_m239339 5y ago

> The phenomenon of mental illness & trauma-based clout is intriguing and I don’t really understand it. Society right now likes to reward people who seek some form of victimhood, so it's no surprise people would fraudulently claim they are victims for internet brownie points, or donations... it's just an aspect of our ultra narcissistic society, tik tok driven.

Tao331 5y ago
I don't think it's necessarily what I'd call narcissism. We look back on history and see people championing causes and things for real victims, e.g. the civil rights movement. I think a lot of people feel a weird guilt at not having a chance to be one of these great, celebrated people or someone fighting that struggle. Or maybe it is narcissism and it's a selfish desire to say "look at how much better we left the world!" I don't know. The first time I saw it was with a friend's mother who literally said to her "why couldn't you have been a lesbian?" because she wanted to have a personal cause. One day it dawned on me that she had just missed being old enough for the '60s.
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > I don't think it's necessarily what I'd call narcissism. We look back on history and see people championing causes and things for real victims, e.g. the civil rights movement. I think a lot of people feel a weird guilt at not having a chance to be one of these great, celebrated people or someone fighting that struggle. We're here talking about people on social media who are faking mental illness for attention or personal gain, that's the very definition of narcissism.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]