5 ms·

That's going to be interesting to see if the whole credit scoring industry will have to disclose their algorithms as well. Looking at you, Schufa.

daniel-cussen 4y ago
- tester89 4y ago
  I didn’t think I would see the day with a troll on HN. I doubt it’s an AI too because of the coherency of what they’re saying.
  - daniel-cussen 4y ago
    Trolling whom? Trolling whom? These guys send letters every month about artificial debt they self-inflicted and demanding payment under threat of theft, and I'm the troll? International debt was under 1% before Ukraine, these dudes were asking 20% a year, like the sixteenth power of what the international market was asking. They can perfectly well get credit at under 1%, they can perfectly well function with lower rates. They just love usury. They love money.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    It’s against the rules of this forum to accuse people of being trolls.
  - gerdesj 4y ago
    "coherency of what they’re saying" Bollocks - spelling and grammar are both rubbish.
miketery 4y ago
My understanding regarding credit score is that it's one of the most regulated and explainable algorithms. It's not transparent to the public, but it is auditable due to anti discrimination regulations. Am I wrong on this?
- delusional 4y ago
  We're doing credit scoring at the Danish bank i work at. One of our requirements is that the model and architecture has to be able to provide explanations for why yohr rating is whatever it is. Both to regulators, internal auditors, and customers. Personally, i thimk denying people a loan is a pretty impactful decision on peoples life. They deserve a reason.
  - movedx 4y ago
    Well, 90% yes and 10% no, in my opinion. Yes, because of the obvious ramifications, as you've alluded to. No, because it's a private company you're asking the loan of. If they don't want to lend to you, then they don't have to lend to you. I believe they should be able to come to this conclusion however they like, except based on the obvious factors like culture, gender (or lack/fluidity of), etc. but mostly yes. I think the credit economy is an important thing to understand and people should be able to access credit so they can actualise their lives.
    - bzxcvbn 4y ago
      > I believe they should be able to come to this conclusion however they like, except based on the obvious factors like culture, gender (or lack/fluidity of), etc. Really? How do you figure? I genuinely cannot tell how you are reconciling these two points of view. While should a private business be able to do business however it wants, but somehow be restricted when it comes to this list of 3-4 factors? Can you elaborate on that? More specifically, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that many algorithmic models do perpetuate existing discriminations against these groups that you listed, despite these things supposedly not being parameters of the algorithms? (Note: I am not condoning discrimination. In fact, I personally don't think that private business should be able to do whatever they want, and that they should be much more restricted than they are today in many, many different respects.)
      - movedx 4y ago
        > Really? How do you figure? I genuinely cannot tell how you are reconciling these two points of view. While should a private business be able to do business however it wants, but somehow be restricted when it comes to this list of 3-4 factors? Can you elaborate on that? I don't get how you're confused by this notion. A business should be able to operate however it likes, within the confines of the laws of society. What don't you get about that? > More specifically, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that many algorithmic models do perpetuate existing discriminations against these groups that you listed, despite these things supposedly not being parameters of the algorithms? I'm sure there are many examples of laws not being obeyed, ethics being dodged, or morality being misaligned, but that doesn't take away the simple fact that a business should be able to do business however it likes provided it's obeying the law. If a business is not obeying the law, then it's prevented from doing business. If it's not prevented despite the obvious legal breaches, then it's corrupt or the government is corrupt. Is there something about this you're missing?

daniel-cussen 4y ago

tester89 4y ago
I didn’t think I would see the day with a troll on HN. I doubt it’s an AI too because of the coherency of what they’re saying.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Trolling whom? Trolling whom? These guys send letters every month about artificial debt they self-inflicted and demanding payment under threat of theft, and I'm the troll? International debt was under 1% before Ukraine, these dudes were asking 20% a year, like the sixteenth power of what the international market was asking. They can perfectly well get credit at under 1%, they can perfectly well function with lower rates. They just love usury. They love money.
- user3939382 4y ago
  It’s against the rules of this forum to accuse people of being trolls.
- gerdesj 4y ago
  "coherency of what they’re saying" Bollocks - spelling and grammar are both rubbish.

miketery 4y ago

My understanding regarding credit score is that it's one of the most regulated and explainable algorithms. It's not transparent to the public, but it is auditable due to anti discrimination regulations. Am I wrong on this?

delusional 4y ago
We're doing credit scoring at the Danish bank i work at. One of our requirements is that the model and architecture has to be able to provide explanations for why yohr rating is whatever it is. Both to regulators, internal auditors, and customers. Personally, i thimk denying people a loan is a pretty impactful decision on peoples life. They deserve a reason.
- movedx 4y ago
  Well, 90% yes and 10% no, in my opinion. Yes, because of the obvious ramifications, as you've alluded to. No, because it's a private company you're asking the loan of. If they don't want to lend to you, then they don't have to lend to you. I believe they should be able to come to this conclusion however they like, except based on the obvious factors like culture, gender (or lack/fluidity of), etc. but mostly yes. I think the credit economy is an important thing to understand and people should be able to access credit so they can actualise their lives.
  - bzxcvbn 4y ago
    > I believe they should be able to come to this conclusion however they like, except based on the obvious factors like culture, gender (or lack/fluidity of), etc. Really? How do you figure? I genuinely cannot tell how you are reconciling these two points of view. While should a private business be able to do business however it wants, but somehow be restricted when it comes to this list of 3-4 factors? Can you elaborate on that? More specifically, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that many algorithmic models do perpetuate existing discriminations against these groups that you listed, despite these things supposedly not being parameters of the algorithms? (Note: I am not condoning discrimination. In fact, I personally don't think that private business should be able to do whatever they want, and that they should be much more restricted than they are today in many, many different respects.)
    - movedx 4y ago
      > Really? How do you figure? I genuinely cannot tell how you are reconciling these two points of view. While should a private business be able to do business however it wants, but somehow be restricted when it comes to this list of 3-4 factors? Can you elaborate on that? I don't get how you're confused by this notion. A business should be able to operate however it likes, within the confines of the laws of society. What don't you get about that? > More specifically, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that many algorithmic models do perpetuate existing discriminations against these groups that you listed, despite these things supposedly not being parameters of the algorithms? I'm sure there are many examples of laws not being obeyed, ethics being dodged, or morality being misaligned, but that doesn't take away the simple fact that a business should be able to do business however it likes provided it's obeying the law. If a business is not obeying the law, then it's prevented from doing business. If it's not prevented despite the obvious legal breaches, then it's corrupt or the government is corrupt. Is there something about this you're missing?