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I think that’s what a silent majority of reasonable people might think, but there is still a ton of indiscriminate anti-Russian bigotry going around.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
- ShivShankaran 5y ago
- native_samples 5y ago
  Technically, Russian conscripts did.
- philwelch 5y ago
  And here we have a perfect example of anti-Russian bigotry.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Less than a hundred years ago russians marched into my country and tried to murder every man and rape every woman. Now they're marching into Ukraine and doing the same. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, you just want to "feel good" about how woke you percieve yourself to be, all the while living comfortably very far from a russian border, I'd wager. All this seems just overblown bigotry to you.
    - inkyoto 5y ago
      > Less than a hundred years ago russians marched into my country and tried to murder every man and rape every woman. You had better back such a sweeping statement up with hard facts and numbers as its emotional quotient veers past the red line. The history of the human race is so rife with examples of polity A committing atrocities against people of polity B under pretexts 1, 2, … N that it does not take long of poking around to find something to embarrass nearly any ethnic group on this planet, small or large. Human beings simply do not have a lasting track record of peacefully resolving their differences and most of the time resort to the warfare instead. Sad but true. Let's do another fact cross-check if the domain name of «.fi» in your profile rings true to the origin of your abode. Finland joined Nazi Germany as an ally and participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War#Finnish_offensive_phase_in_1941 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War#Finnish_offen...: «On the morning of 22 June Adolf Hitler's proclamation read: "Together with their Finnish comrades in arms the heroes from Narvik stand at the edge of the Arctic Ocean. German troops under command of the conqueror of Norway, and the Finnish freedom fighters under their Marshal's command, are protecting Finnish territory». «The Finnish plans for the offensive in Ladoga Karelia were finalised on 28 June 1941, and the first stages of the operation began on 10 July. By 16 July, VI Corps had reached the northern shore of Lake Ladoga, dividing the Soviet 7th Army, which had been tasked with defending the area. […] The Finnish II Corps started its offensive in the north of the Karelian Isthmus on 31 July. […] On 22 August, the Finnish IV Corps began its offensive south of II Corps and advanced towards Vyborg (Finnish: Viipuri). By 23 August, II Corps had reached the Vuoksi River to the east and encircled the Soviet forces defending Vyborg». On Finland's plans concerning Eastern Karelia; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_military_administration_in_Eastern_Karelia#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_military_administratio...: «The Continuation War and belief in a quick German victory over the Soviet Union once again gave rise to Finnish irredentism. The legality of the Finnish claims on Eastern Karelia was justified by both ethno-cultural and military security factors. During the spring of 1941, when the Finnish political leadership understood the full extent of the German plans concerning the Soviet Union, president Ryti commissioned professor of geography Väinö Auer and historian Eino Jutikkala to demonstrate "scholarly" that Eastern Karelia formed a natural part of the Finnish living space». On the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in Easter Karelia by the Finnish government; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_concentration_ca...: «These camps were organized by the armed forces supreme commander Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. The [Eastern Karelian concentration – emphasis is mine] camps were intended to hold camp detainees for future exchange with the Finnic population from the rest of Russia. The mortality rate of civilians in the camps was high due to famine and disease: by some estimates, 4279 civilians died in these camps, meaning a rough mortality rate of 17% […] Significant numbers of Soviet civilians were interred in the concentration camps. These were primarily Russian women, children, and the elderly, as almost all of the working age male and female population were either drafted or evacuated by the Soviets. […] During the spring and summer of 1942, about 3,500 detainees died of malnutrition». Granted, the situation with ethnic Russian detained in Finnish concentration camps was never as severe as in German extermination camps and the detainees did get released, several thousands did die anyway under the justification of the polity A leadership having a superiority over people of polity B. We now have gone a full circle.
      - EdwardDiego 5y ago
        The Red Army raping its way through Germany (not sure if that is the country the comment you're replying to was referring to), is pretty well documented and agreed upon by everyone other than Russian historians. > Finland joined Nazi Germany as an ally and participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union When you linked to an article on the Continuation War, did you wonder why it was called the Continuation War? Not the War of Finnish Aggression?
        inkyoto 5y ago
        > The Red Army raping its way through Germany […] In fact, it was much worse and started way before. According to informal accounts that Russian historians silently omit due to not boding well the narrative of the glory and the purity of the Soviet victory, male Wermacht soldiers captured in trenches of the Eastern Front were frequently sexually abused and raped with material objects other than a male genitalia, such as glass bottles. The most commonly cited reason (and an excuse) is revenge for an attempt of a near total extermination of Eastern Slavs (Poles, Belarussians, Ukrainians – not just ethnic Russians). Actually, it was the Poles, the Belarussians and the Ukrainians who bore the main brunt of the Nazi brutality. US and British troops, however, did participate in mass rapes after the fall of Berlin and West Germany as well, only to a lesser extent. Many of the Allied forces' soldiers were court martialed on the account of their involvement in mass rapes of German women. Yet, they were given a free reign in the first few days. Soviet Army was given a longer "leeway" in their rampage after which those involved in rapes and other atrocities were also court martialed. Again, the most cited reason is revenge for the murdering of 27+ million Soviet citizens. Personally, I can't accept revenge as a rationalisation of events. > […] did you wonder why it was called the Continuation War? Yes, I did ponder the very same question; yet, I am at a loss. Finland attacking back the Soviets on its own to regain previous losses and calling that The Continuation War? Yes, I can see a merit in that. Finland opportunistically siding with Nazi Germany, creating a pretext rooted in the nationalistic rhetoric and the Finnish epic poetry for the ethnic cleansing? No, it is a separate undertaking and not a continuation war (note the spelling).
      - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        The soviet union illegally and unprovoked invaded Finland in 1939 and conquered territory. Then: On 22 June 1941, Germany launched an invasion of the Soviet Union. Three days later, the Soviet Union conducted an air raid on Finnish cities, prompting Finland to declare war and allow German troops stationed in Finland to begin offensive warfare. By September 1941, Finland had regained its post–Winter War concessions to the Soviet Union: the Karelian Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia. However, the Finnish Army continued the offensive past the pre-1939 border during the conquest of East Karelia, including Petrozavodsk, and halted only around 30–32 km (19–20 mi) from the centre of Leningrad. It participated in besieging the city by cutting the northern supply routes and by digging in until 1944. So the war you are talking about started with, again, the soviet union bombing Finland. We got hella mad and pushed them back, reclaiming our lost territories. Did we march further into russia than we needed to? Sure. Was there precedent? Absolutely. Am I a bigot for hating russians? Fuck no. Some prisoners of war dying of malnutrition or disease is hardly an evil act from a tiny nation of farmers struggling to feed themselves while fighting to survive invasion from russia.
    - philwelch 5y ago
      And what would you suggest we do? Murder every Russian man and rape every Russian woman as collective retribution? Besides, how many Ukrainians were in the Red Army that invaded Finland in 1939? And what was the nationality of the man who ordered that invasion? By your logic, Russians, Ukrainians, and Georgians are all your enemies, so why take a side when they are fighting between themselves? My moral stance here is to remember the distinction between a people and a regime. It’s the opposite of what the “woke” do; in fact, many of the “woke” wholeheartedly agree with you.
      - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        > And what would you suggest we do? Stop calling justified hate "bigotry". That's all. That's what I was accused of.
        philwelch 5y ago
        Indiscriminate hatred towards people you don’t even know, purely on the basis of what country they were born in, qualifies as bigotry. You can hold the opinion that it’s justified in this particular instance, but it is still bigotry.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  Yeah sure, boy, particularly people who haven't lived in Russia for the past 20 years or so ...
- inkyoto 5y ago
  > it's always russian people invading. Let's cross check this statement against the historical record of invasions of what we now collectively know as Belorus, Russia and Ukraine. A list of major invasions that took place that we have a historical record of: - Mongol invasion of Kievan Rus' (1237–1242), a series of invasions that resulted in the Rus' states becoming vassals of the Golden Horde. - Livonian campaign against Rus' (1240–1242), an unsuccessful Teutonic invasion of the Novgorod and Pskov Republics, in order to convert them to Catholicism. - Russo-Crimean Wars (1570–1572), an Ottoman invasion that penetrated Russia and destroyed Moscow. - Polish–Muscovite War (1609–1618), Poland gained Severia and Smolensk. - Polish–Lithuanian occupation of Moscow (1610-1612). The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth occupation of Moscow took place between 1610 and 1612 during the Polish–Muscovite War, when Moscow was sacked and the Kremlin was occupied by a Polish-Lithuanian garrison under the command of Stanisław Żółkiewski. - Ingrian War (1610–1617), a Swedish invasion which captured Novgorod and Pskov. - Swedish invasion of Russia (1708–1709), an unsuccessful Swedish invasion, as part of the Great Northern War (1700–1721). - French invasion of Russia (1812), an unsuccessful invasion by Napoleon's French Empire and its allies, as part of the Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815). - Crimean War (1853–1856), a series of conflicts between the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, France, Sardinia and the Russian Empire, including an Allied invasion of the Crimean Peninsula. - Japanese invasion of Sakhalin (1905), an invasion and annexation by the Japanese, as part of the Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905). - Eastern Front (World War I) (1914–1918), Russia was forced to cede Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic states to Germany as the Russian Empire collapsed. - Caucasus campaign (1914–1918), a series of conflicts between the Russian Empire, its various successor states, and the Ottoman Empire during World War I. - Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War (1918–1925) and the contemporaneous Polish–Soviet War (1918/9–1921), the Polish occupation of Belarus and West Ukraine. - Japanese intervention in Siberia (1918–1922), an occupation of the Russian Far East by Japanese soldiers during the Russian Civil War (1917–1923). - Operation Barbarossa (1941), an unsuccessful invasion of the Soviet Union led by Nazi Germany that started the Eastern Front (World War II) of 1941–1945. The list above does not include constant «minor» invasions over a succession of multiple centuries of nomadic tribes (Cumans, Kipchaks, Pechenegs) from the south and from the south-east of what we now know as Russia and Kazakhstan. If we average that list out, Russia historically has been a subject to a major invasion every 47.2 years ((1945 - 1237) ÷ 15) over the between 1237 and 1945. The 47.2 years figure is, of course, nonsensical from the historical point of view but lends a perspective of the average frequency of major invasions. ------ As a bonus, there is also a list of planned invasions: - Kantokuen (1941), an aborted plan for a major Japanese invasion of the Russian Far East during World War II. - Operation Unthinkable (1945), a proposed contingency plan for an Anglo-American invasion of the Soviet Union developed by the British Chiefs of Staff during the later stages of World War II.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
I guess it doesn't help when there's footage of mass graves in Ukraine. (I'm aware that they've been publicised via Ukrainian PR, so the truth may be blurry, but given that the French just published footage of soldiers burying bodies in Mali, that they claim are Russian mercenaries trying to carry out a false flag attack, I'm inclined to believe that the Ukrainians didn't kill a bunch of their own citizens to make Russia look bad).
- philwelch 5y ago
  These mass graves are the product of indiscriminate hatred and collective retribution. How can they possibly justify it?
Mikeb85 5y ago
And they're committing a literal genocide while Russians abroad are silent or tacitly supporting it. When Ukrainians are no longer being killed then we can talk about hurt feelings...
- philwelch 5y ago
  Yours is the logic that leads to genocide.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Pretty sure whatever logic the Russians are using leads to genocide considering they're committing it right now... I'm literally advocating for an end to genocide...
    - philwelch 5y ago
      You are advocating indiscriminate and collective hatred towards entire nationalities. That hatred is the root cause of genocide. And if that is truly your attitude, you don’t even have a consistent moral basis to claim that genocide is categorically wrong. By your logic, an entire nationality of people are collectively responsible for whatever their regime and military do. Since a hostile military can be justifiably killed, why not the civilian populace? I have an answer that question; do you?
      - Mikeb85 5y ago
        I simply said that we can talk about Russians' hurt feelings when Ukrainians aren't being killed by Russians. Quote where I said Russians should be killed? No one's killing Russian civilians. I never said anyone should. Russian media and leaders have said Ukraine should be wiped off the map. Mariupol is no longer a city. Tens of thousands of civilians murdered. Women raped. But people are being mean to Russians? You're literally whitewashing a genocide... How about you say what the Russians are doing is wrong?
        5y ago

hypertele-Xii 5y ago

ShivShankaran 5y ago
native_samples 5y ago
Technically, Russian conscripts did.
philwelch 5y ago
And here we have a perfect example of anti-Russian bigotry.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Less than a hundred years ago russians marched into my country and tried to murder every man and rape every woman. Now they're marching into Ukraine and doing the same. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, you just want to "feel good" about how woke you percieve yourself to be, all the while living comfortably very far from a russian border, I'd wager. All this seems just overblown bigotry to you.
  - inkyoto 5y ago
    > Less than a hundred years ago russians marched into my country and tried to murder every man and rape every woman. You had better back such a sweeping statement up with hard facts and numbers as its emotional quotient veers past the red line. The history of the human race is so rife with examples of polity A committing atrocities against people of polity B under pretexts 1, 2, … N that it does not take long of poking around to find something to embarrass nearly any ethnic group on this planet, small or large. Human beings simply do not have a lasting track record of peacefully resolving their differences and most of the time resort to the warfare instead. Sad but true. Let's do another fact cross-check if the domain name of «.fi» in your profile rings true to the origin of your abode. Finland joined Nazi Germany as an ally and participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War#Finnish_offensive_phase_in_1941 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War#Finnish_offen...: «On the morning of 22 June Adolf Hitler's proclamation read: "Together with their Finnish comrades in arms the heroes from Narvik stand at the edge of the Arctic Ocean. German troops under command of the conqueror of Norway, and the Finnish freedom fighters under their Marshal's command, are protecting Finnish territory». «The Finnish plans for the offensive in Ladoga Karelia were finalised on 28 June 1941, and the first stages of the operation began on 10 July. By 16 July, VI Corps had reached the northern shore of Lake Ladoga, dividing the Soviet 7th Army, which had been tasked with defending the area. […] The Finnish II Corps started its offensive in the north of the Karelian Isthmus on 31 July. […] On 22 August, the Finnish IV Corps began its offensive south of II Corps and advanced towards Vyborg (Finnish: Viipuri). By 23 August, II Corps had reached the Vuoksi River to the east and encircled the Soviet forces defending Vyborg». On Finland's plans concerning Eastern Karelia; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_military_administration_in_Eastern_Karelia#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_military_administratio...: «The Continuation War and belief in a quick German victory over the Soviet Union once again gave rise to Finnish irredentism. The legality of the Finnish claims on Eastern Karelia was justified by both ethno-cultural and military security factors. During the spring of 1941, when the Finnish political leadership understood the full extent of the German plans concerning the Soviet Union, president Ryti commissioned professor of geography Väinö Auer and historian Eino Jutikkala to demonstrate "scholarly" that Eastern Karelia formed a natural part of the Finnish living space». On the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in Easter Karelia by the Finnish government; from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_concentration_ca...: «These camps were organized by the armed forces supreme commander Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. The [Eastern Karelian concentration – emphasis is mine] camps were intended to hold camp detainees for future exchange with the Finnic population from the rest of Russia. The mortality rate of civilians in the camps was high due to famine and disease: by some estimates, 4279 civilians died in these camps, meaning a rough mortality rate of 17% […] Significant numbers of Soviet civilians were interred in the concentration camps. These were primarily Russian women, children, and the elderly, as almost all of the working age male and female population were either drafted or evacuated by the Soviets. […] During the spring and summer of 1942, about 3,500 detainees died of malnutrition». Granted, the situation with ethnic Russian detained in Finnish concentration camps was never as severe as in German extermination camps and the detainees did get released, several thousands did die anyway under the justification of the polity A leadership having a superiority over people of polity B. We now have gone a full circle.
    - EdwardDiego 5y ago
      The Red Army raping its way through Germany (not sure if that is the country the comment you're replying to was referring to), is pretty well documented and agreed upon by everyone other than Russian historians. > Finland joined Nazi Germany as an ally and participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union When you linked to an article on the Continuation War, did you wonder why it was called the Continuation War? Not the War of Finnish Aggression?
      - inkyoto 5y ago
        > The Red Army raping its way through Germany […] In fact, it was much worse and started way before. According to informal accounts that Russian historians silently omit due to not boding well the narrative of the glory and the purity of the Soviet victory, male Wermacht soldiers captured in trenches of the Eastern Front were frequently sexually abused and raped with material objects other than a male genitalia, such as glass bottles. The most commonly cited reason (and an excuse) is revenge for an attempt of a near total extermination of Eastern Slavs (Poles, Belarussians, Ukrainians – not just ethnic Russians). Actually, it was the Poles, the Belarussians and the Ukrainians who bore the main brunt of the Nazi brutality. US and British troops, however, did participate in mass rapes after the fall of Berlin and West Germany as well, only to a lesser extent. Many of the Allied forces' soldiers were court martialed on the account of their involvement in mass rapes of German women. Yet, they were given a free reign in the first few days. Soviet Army was given a longer "leeway" in their rampage after which those involved in rapes and other atrocities were also court martialed. Again, the most cited reason is revenge for the murdering of 27+ million Soviet citizens. Personally, I can't accept revenge as a rationalisation of events. > […] did you wonder why it was called the Continuation War? Yes, I did ponder the very same question; yet, I am at a loss. Finland attacking back the Soviets on its own to regain previous losses and calling that The Continuation War? Yes, I can see a merit in that. Finland opportunistically siding with Nazi Germany, creating a pretext rooted in the nationalistic rhetoric and the Finnish epic poetry for the ethnic cleansing? No, it is a separate undertaking and not a continuation war (note the spelling).
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      The soviet union illegally and unprovoked invaded Finland in 1939 and conquered territory. Then: On 22 June 1941, Germany launched an invasion of the Soviet Union. Three days later, the Soviet Union conducted an air raid on Finnish cities, prompting Finland to declare war and allow German troops stationed in Finland to begin offensive warfare. By September 1941, Finland had regained its post–Winter War concessions to the Soviet Union: the Karelian Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia. However, the Finnish Army continued the offensive past the pre-1939 border during the conquest of East Karelia, including Petrozavodsk, and halted only around 30–32 km (19–20 mi) from the centre of Leningrad. It participated in besieging the city by cutting the northern supply routes and by digging in until 1944. So the war you are talking about started with, again, the soviet union bombing Finland. We got hella mad and pushed them back, reclaiming our lost territories. Did we march further into russia than we needed to? Sure. Was there precedent? Absolutely. Am I a bigot for hating russians? Fuck no. Some prisoners of war dying of malnutrition or disease is hardly an evil act from a tiny nation of farmers struggling to feed themselves while fighting to survive invasion from russia.
  - philwelch 5y ago
    And what would you suggest we do? Murder every Russian man and rape every Russian woman as collective retribution? Besides, how many Ukrainians were in the Red Army that invaded Finland in 1939? And what was the nationality of the man who ordered that invasion? By your logic, Russians, Ukrainians, and Georgians are all your enemies, so why take a side when they are fighting between themselves? My moral stance here is to remember the distinction between a people and a regime. It’s the opposite of what the “woke” do; in fact, many of the “woke” wholeheartedly agree with you.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      > And what would you suggest we do? Stop calling justified hate "bigotry". That's all. That's what I was accused of.
      - philwelch 5y ago
        Indiscriminate hatred towards people you don’t even know, purely on the basis of what country they were born in, qualifies as bigotry. You can hold the opinion that it’s justified in this particular instance, but it is still bigotry.
moralestapia 5y ago
Yeah sure, boy, particularly people who haven't lived in Russia for the past 20 years or so ...
inkyoto 5y ago
> it's always russian people invading. Let's cross check this statement against the historical record of invasions of what we now collectively know as Belorus, Russia and Ukraine. A list of major invasions that took place that we have a historical record of: - Mongol invasion of Kievan Rus' (1237–1242), a series of invasions that resulted in the Rus' states becoming vassals of the Golden Horde. - Livonian campaign against Rus' (1240–1242), an unsuccessful Teutonic invasion of the Novgorod and Pskov Republics, in order to convert them to Catholicism. - Russo-Crimean Wars (1570–1572), an Ottoman invasion that penetrated Russia and destroyed Moscow. - Polish–Muscovite War (1609–1618), Poland gained Severia and Smolensk. - Polish–Lithuanian occupation of Moscow (1610-1612). The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth occupation of Moscow took place between 1610 and 1612 during the Polish–Muscovite War, when Moscow was sacked and the Kremlin was occupied by a Polish-Lithuanian garrison under the command of Stanisław Żółkiewski. - Ingrian War (1610–1617), a Swedish invasion which captured Novgorod and Pskov. - Swedish invasion of Russia (1708–1709), an unsuccessful Swedish invasion, as part of the Great Northern War (1700–1721). - French invasion of Russia (1812), an unsuccessful invasion by Napoleon's French Empire and its allies, as part of the Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815). - Crimean War (1853–1856), a series of conflicts between the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, France, Sardinia and the Russian Empire, including an Allied invasion of the Crimean Peninsula. - Japanese invasion of Sakhalin (1905), an invasion and annexation by the Japanese, as part of the Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905). - Eastern Front (World War I) (1914–1918), Russia was forced to cede Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic states to Germany as the Russian Empire collapsed. - Caucasus campaign (1914–1918), a series of conflicts between the Russian Empire, its various successor states, and the Ottoman Empire during World War I. - Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War (1918–1925) and the contemporaneous Polish–Soviet War (1918/9–1921), the Polish occupation of Belarus and West Ukraine. - Japanese intervention in Siberia (1918–1922), an occupation of the Russian Far East by Japanese soldiers during the Russian Civil War (1917–1923). - Operation Barbarossa (1941), an unsuccessful invasion of the Soviet Union led by Nazi Germany that started the Eastern Front (World War II) of 1941–1945. The list above does not include constant «minor» invasions over a succession of multiple centuries of nomadic tribes (Cumans, Kipchaks, Pechenegs) from the south and from the south-east of what we now know as Russia and Kazakhstan. If we average that list out, Russia historically has been a subject to a major invasion every 47.2 years ((1945 - 1237) ÷ 15) over the between 1237 and 1945. The 47.2 years figure is, of course, nonsensical from the historical point of view but lends a perspective of the average frequency of major invasions. ------ As a bonus, there is also a list of planned invasions: - Kantokuen (1941), an aborted plan for a major Japanese invasion of the Russian Far East during World War II. - Operation Unthinkable (1945), a proposed contingency plan for an Anglo-American invasion of the Soviet Union developed by the British Chiefs of Staff during the later stages of World War II.

EdwardDiego 5y ago

I guess it doesn't help when there's footage of mass graves in Ukraine. (I'm aware that they've been publicised via Ukrainian PR, so the truth may be blurry, but given that the French just published footage of soldiers burying bodies in Mali, that they claim are Russian mercenaries trying to carry out a false flag attack, I'm inclined to believe that the Ukrainians didn't kill a bunch of their own citizens to make Russia look bad).

philwelch 5y ago
These mass graves are the product of indiscriminate hatred and collective retribution. How can they possibly justify it?

Mikeb85 5y ago

And they're committing a literal genocide while Russians abroad are silent or tacitly supporting it. When Ukrainians are no longer being killed then we can talk about hurt feelings...

philwelch 5y ago
Yours is the logic that leads to genocide.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Pretty sure whatever logic the Russians are using leads to genocide considering they're committing it right now... I'm literally advocating for an end to genocide...
  - philwelch 5y ago
    You are advocating indiscriminate and collective hatred towards entire nationalities. That hatred is the root cause of genocide. And if that is truly your attitude, you don’t even have a consistent moral basis to claim that genocide is categorically wrong. By your logic, an entire nationality of people are collectively responsible for whatever their regime and military do. Since a hostile military can be justifiably killed, why not the civilian populace? I have an answer that question; do you?
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      I simply said that we can talk about Russians' hurt feelings when Ukrainians aren't being killed by Russians. Quote where I said Russians should be killed? No one's killing Russian civilians. I never said anyone should. Russian media and leaders have said Ukraine should be wiped off the map. Mariupol is no longer a city. Tens of thousands of civilians murdered. Women raped. But people are being mean to Russians? You're literally whitewashing a genocide... How about you say what the Russians are doing is wrong?
      - 5y ago