6 ms·

LowStakesConspiracy: Apple needs to keep developers buying newer Macbooks / iPhones.

viro 5y ago
Or they don't want customers downloading apps that don't properly support their devices. makes the customer experience suck.
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  The customer-breaking changes are coming from Apple, not the app developers. If Apple is so concerned about customer experience, they can just as well choose not to break existing apps. The "customer experience" excuse hasn't held water in decades.
  - Someone 5y ago
    I think it has. On Windows, famous for its backwards compatibility, you still have software that shows ancient dialogs, have graphics at a resolution for 640×480 monitors, or that work with 8.3 file names, and only with those (so, you can’t save docs with long names, and have to guess at the short names of files and directories with long names) Yes, banning such apps is a loss for the customer experience of being able to run such applications, but there are disadvantages, too. For many of those applications, users would be happier _if_ those applications were maintained and adjusted to modern hardware and new OS capabilities. Now, of course, that’s an _if_. Apple makes a different choice than Microsoft there. They think losing applications isn’t a big problem (presumably as long as replacements exist, but even that isn’t strictly necessary for some tools. The public at large can do without a Kermit program or RSS reader, for example, because it has alternative ways to download files or access news)
    - Brian_K_White 4y ago
      1) The customer who does not need a Kermit app is not forced to use one. Nor even are they forced to live with a crappy OS just so that old apos can keep working. The customer who does need a Kermit app, is forced to live without. 2) Even worse, they are forced to live without even though the work was done to create one and they had it yesterday. This is not all explained my mere inevitable and unavoidable compatibility creep, nor by the sensible goal not to be Microsoft with their mountains of Rube Goldberg code to deal with countless obscure backwards compatibility quirks. That will make things break eventually, but this an arbitrary and voluntary choice driven by goals other than serving the needs of users as well as possible in trade for their money. Apple values their appearance and their revenue stream above all else. Setting aside malware and other demonstrably legitimate security topics, because we aren't talking about apps that are no longer safe to use for some reason, or that are no longer compatible with the OS because of security-related changes in the OS.: Purging all apps that are "ugly" or have any sort of undesired ux, or that aren't generating income for Apple one way or another, benefits Apple, not the users. The users would prfectly happily simply not use an app that sucked. If any are using it, then it must be supplying some function that the user wants. Whatever that function is, obviously it matters more to the user than any of the excuses for removing it. It only benefits Apple to purge them, not the user, and it's not a case of "What's good for Apple is good for is good for all Apple users" I don't claim it's just Apple either. Google increasingly does the same thing, just a bit less.
  - etchalon 5y ago
    "If Apple is so concerned about customer experience, they should stop making their products better." is an interesting take.
    - Brian_K_White 5y ago
      What's interesting is no one said that. Inventing your own false statement so that you can point out how false it is, is an utterly uninteresting approach.
      - viro 4y ago
        > The customer-breaking changes are coming from Apple, not the app developers. They literally said that. Form factor changes will break apps if devs refuse to update.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
meibo 5y ago
This is/has always been obvious to everyone that works with Apple hardware/software, it's not really a secret. They move this fast to keep people on their toes - they know that everyone will just have to keep running after them, otherwise you lose a huge part of your userbase. I assume this isn't as much of a problem for regular apps, but games are finished pieces of art and recompiling them with a new engine version is often unfeasible.
- clintonb 5y ago
  I disagree. The latest version of Xcode ran on my 2013 MBP, until a recent upgrade. Using the latest hardware is much faster, but not required. I intend to keep my new MBP for another 8-10 years.
  - Veuxdo 5y ago
    I'm surprised a 2013 Apple anything even turns on.
    - schwartzworld 5y ago
      I have a 2012 MBP that still works just fine. Better than some of the newer Apple devices work has thrust upon me. I also have a g3 imac that turns on just fine.
    - meibo 5y ago
      From what I know, older Apple hardware(<2013) is vastly more repairable/durable. Wouldn't be surprised if quite a few people are still running that.
    - ratww 5y ago
      I was using a 2011 12" MacBook Air until recently, for work, music making and personal usage. Only traded for an M1 because thought it was cool. If anything it's 3rd party dev stuff that requires bleeding edge machines (eg: Docker).
    - prewett 5y ago
woah 5y ago
No, actually, upgrading X Code requires a trip to Apple's website. On Apple's website, mobile application developers are likely to come across previews of great new content on Apple TV+, thus enticing them to sign up for Apple's streaming offerings.
- dagmx 5y ago
  This is untrue. Xcode is available in the App Store on Mac. You don't go to the website to get it.
  - cyral 5y ago
    You can get it from either

viro 5y ago

Or they don't want customers downloading apps that don't properly support their devices. makes the customer experience suck.

Brian_K_White 5y ago
The customer-breaking changes are coming from Apple, not the app developers. If Apple is so concerned about customer experience, they can just as well choose not to break existing apps. The "customer experience" excuse hasn't held water in decades.
- Someone 5y ago
  I think it has. On Windows, famous for its backwards compatibility, you still have software that shows ancient dialogs, have graphics at a resolution for 640×480 monitors, or that work with 8.3 file names, and only with those (so, you can’t save docs with long names, and have to guess at the short names of files and directories with long names) Yes, banning such apps is a loss for the customer experience of being able to run such applications, but there are disadvantages, too. For many of those applications, users would be happier _if_ those applications were maintained and adjusted to modern hardware and new OS capabilities. Now, of course, that’s an _if_. Apple makes a different choice than Microsoft there. They think losing applications isn’t a big problem (presumably as long as replacements exist, but even that isn’t strictly necessary for some tools. The public at large can do without a Kermit program or RSS reader, for example, because it has alternative ways to download files or access news)
  - Brian_K_White 4y ago
    1) The customer who does not need a Kermit app is not forced to use one. Nor even are they forced to live with a crappy OS just so that old apos can keep working. The customer who does need a Kermit app, is forced to live without. 2) Even worse, they are forced to live without even though the work was done to create one and they had it yesterday. This is not all explained my mere inevitable and unavoidable compatibility creep, nor by the sensible goal not to be Microsoft with their mountains of Rube Goldberg code to deal with countless obscure backwards compatibility quirks. That will make things break eventually, but this an arbitrary and voluntary choice driven by goals other than serving the needs of users as well as possible in trade for their money. Apple values their appearance and their revenue stream above all else. Setting aside malware and other demonstrably legitimate security topics, because we aren't talking about apps that are no longer safe to use for some reason, or that are no longer compatible with the OS because of security-related changes in the OS.: Purging all apps that are "ugly" or have any sort of undesired ux, or that aren't generating income for Apple one way or another, benefits Apple, not the users. The users would prfectly happily simply not use an app that sucked. If any are using it, then it must be supplying some function that the user wants. Whatever that function is, obviously it matters more to the user than any of the excuses for removing it. It only benefits Apple to purge them, not the user, and it's not a case of "What's good for Apple is good for is good for all Apple users" I don't claim it's just Apple either. Google increasingly does the same thing, just a bit less.
- etchalon 5y ago
  "If Apple is so concerned about customer experience, they should stop making their products better." is an interesting take.
  - Brian_K_White 5y ago
    What's interesting is no one said that. Inventing your own false statement so that you can point out how false it is, is an utterly uninteresting approach.
    - viro 4y ago
      > The customer-breaking changes are coming from Apple, not the app developers. They literally said that. Form factor changes will break apps if devs refuse to update.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

meibo 5y ago

This is/has always been obvious to everyone that works with Apple hardware/software, it's not really a secret. They move this fast to keep people on their toes - they know that everyone will just have to keep running after them, otherwise you lose a huge part of your userbase. I assume this isn't as much of a problem for regular apps, but games are finished pieces of art and recompiling them with a new engine version is often unfeasible.

clintonb 5y ago
I disagree. The latest version of Xcode ran on my 2013 MBP, until a recent upgrade. Using the latest hardware is much faster, but not required. I intend to keep my new MBP for another 8-10 years.
- Veuxdo 5y ago
  I'm surprised a 2013 Apple anything even turns on.
  - schwartzworld 5y ago
    I have a 2012 MBP that still works just fine. Better than some of the newer Apple devices work has thrust upon me. I also have a g3 imac that turns on just fine.
  - meibo 5y ago
    From what I know, older Apple hardware(<2013) is vastly more repairable/durable. Wouldn't be surprised if quite a few people are still running that.
  - ratww 5y ago
    I was using a 2011 12" MacBook Air until recently, for work, music making and personal usage. Only traded for an M1 because thought it was cool. If anything it's 3rd party dev stuff that requires bleeding edge machines (eg: Docker).
  - prewett 5y ago

woah 5y ago

No, actually, upgrading X Code requires a trip to Apple's website. On Apple's website, mobile application developers are likely to come across previews of great new content on Apple TV+, thus enticing them to sign up for Apple's streaming offerings.

dagmx 5y ago
This is untrue. Xcode is available in the App Store on Mac. You don't go to the website to get it.
- cyral 5y ago
  You can get it from either