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I've don't know why people are so fascinated with John Cage's conceptual music like 4′33″ which is 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence. It doesn't do anything f

I've don't know why people are so fascinated with John Cage's conceptual music like 4′33″ which is 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence. It doesn't do anything for me and seems like b.s.

Bud 5y ago
You might start to understand more about it if you read Cage's writings. He's at least as significant as a writer as he has been as a composer.
- labrador 5y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion Bud. I didn't realize he was a writer too. I'd like to know what his real intentions are with his work.
b3morales 5y ago
It's not what you think. The concept isn't "oh ha ha, here's 'music' that has no sound, smoke that!". It's that while you're sitting there with the performer doing nothing, there's still sound going on around you. Creaking chairs, water in pipes, bus going by outside the venue... If someone makes a recording that is literally a string of 0 bits, they're doing something different than Cage's piece. (EDIT: Although while listening to that recording you the listener can experience the sound of the space you are in. So perhaps it would be the same thing, in a way.) Cage was interested in how -- or whether -- accidental and incidental noise could be incorporated or experienced as music. 4'33" is just the most notorious (and probably starkest) expression of that idea.
- labrador 5y ago
  I get that but do people really need to pretend it is art to sit silently in a room full of people in a concert hall and notice the ambient sounds long with their thoughts and feelings. People who sit in meditation with others do this all the time. I suppose the concept is foreign to most Westerners so they need an artist to come alone and give it the stamp of approval. "Let's have a moment of silence for those we have lost" People understand the above and do it without complaint "Let's sit quietly in meditation and notice our environment, thoughts and feelings. You may find it helpful to focus on your breath" Most people grudgingly do this but find it boring and unnecessary John Cage: "Listen to my piece 4' 33" which the musicians on stage won't play" People: "Oh my God, John Cage is brilliant. What an amazing artist! I can't wait to tell my friends that I 'heard' this"
  - b3morales 5y ago
    I would say that what Cage added was indeed the statement (or maybe question) that those noises are music. And listening to music is a different thing than meditation. That said, one can definitely disagree with his perspective on it.
    - labrador 5y ago
      Ambient sounds do not fit the definition of music according to Oxford: vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion That said, I get that it's interesting for sparking conversations and thought about music https://nmbx.newmusicusa.org/from-no-such-thing-as-silence-john-cages-433 https://nmbx.newmusicusa.org/from-no-such-thing-as-silence-j... like Duchamp's urinal https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/duchamp-fountain-t07573 https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/duchamp-fountain-t07573 Needless to say, I don't ever put 4' 33" on play and I don't have a replica of the urinal hanging on my wall
robonerd 5y ago
I agree, it's pretentious nonsense that only exists so people can pretend to like it and scoff at the unsophisticated proles who call the spade a spade.
- Bud 5y ago
  How many John Cage fans have you actually had a drink and talked with?
  - robonerd 5y ago
    A few? 4'33" is well known enough that I've heard it brought up in conversation a few times in my life. Is this meant to be a round-about "your friends aren't sophisticated" putdown?
    - Bud 5y ago
      I think it's quite clear from your comment above that you were the one engaging in putdowns. I was simply responding with an honest question. I wanted to know how many actual John Cage fans you've had a real conversation with. Because if you ever had, I don't think you'd have the attitude you displayed above. And no, hearing 4'33" brought up a few times doesn't really count.

I've don't know why people are so fascinated with John Cage's conceptual music like 4′33″ which is 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence. It doesn't do anything for me and seems like b.s.

Bud 5y ago

You might start to understand more about it if you read Cage's writings. He's at least as significant as a writer as he has been as a composer.

labrador 5y ago
Thanks for the suggestion Bud. I didn't realize he was a writer too. I'd like to know what his real intentions are with his work.

b3morales 5y ago

It's not what you think. The concept isn't "oh ha ha, here's 'music' that has no sound, smoke that!". It's that while you're sitting there with the performer doing nothing, there's still sound going on around you. Creaking chairs, water in pipes, bus going by outside the venue... If someone makes a recording that is literally a string of 0 bits, they're doing something different than Cage's piece. (EDIT: Although while listening to that recording you the listener can experience the sound of the space you are in. So perhaps it would be the same thing, in a way.) Cage was interested in how -- or whether -- accidental and incidental noise could be incorporated or experienced as music. 4'33" is just the most notorious (and probably starkest) expression of that idea.

labrador 5y ago
I get that but do people really need to pretend it is art to sit silently in a room full of people in a concert hall and notice the ambient sounds long with their thoughts and feelings. People who sit in meditation with others do this all the time. I suppose the concept is foreign to most Westerners so they need an artist to come alone and give it the stamp of approval. "Let's have a moment of silence for those we have lost" People understand the above and do it without complaint "Let's sit quietly in meditation and notice our environment, thoughts and feelings. You may find it helpful to focus on your breath" Most people grudgingly do this but find it boring and unnecessary John Cage: "Listen to my piece 4' 33" which the musicians on stage won't play" People: "Oh my God, John Cage is brilliant. What an amazing artist! I can't wait to tell my friends that I 'heard' this"
- b3morales 5y ago
  I would say that what Cage added was indeed the statement (or maybe question) that those noises are music. And listening to music is a different thing than meditation. That said, one can definitely disagree with his perspective on it.
  - labrador 5y ago
    Ambient sounds do not fit the definition of music according to Oxford: vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion That said, I get that it's interesting for sparking conversations and thought about music https://nmbx.newmusicusa.org/from-no-such-thing-as-silence-john-cages-433 https://nmbx.newmusicusa.org/from-no-such-thing-as-silence-j... like Duchamp's urinal https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/duchamp-fountain-t07573 https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/duchamp-fountain-t07573 Needless to say, I don't ever put 4' 33" on play and I don't have a replica of the urinal hanging on my wall

robonerd 5y ago

I agree, it's pretentious nonsense that only exists so people can pretend to like it and scoff at the unsophisticated proles who call the spade a spade.

Bud 5y ago
How many John Cage fans have you actually had a drink and talked with?
- robonerd 5y ago
  A few? 4'33" is well known enough that I've heard it brought up in conversation a few times in my life. Is this meant to be a round-about "your friends aren't sophisticated" putdown?
  - Bud 5y ago
    I think it's quite clear from your comment above that you were the one engaging in putdowns. I was simply responding with an honest question. I wanted to know how many actual John Cage fans you've had a real conversation with. Because if you ever had, I don't think you'd have the attitude you displayed above. And no, hearing 4'33" brought up a few times doesn't really count.