3 ms·

I only used MLK because he's a Western figure that stood up to racism. For us as Muslims, Islam set the guidelines on these issues a long long time ago. All peo

by azth 4y ago

I only used MLK because he's a Western figure that stood up to racism. For us as Muslims, Islam set the guidelines on these issues a long long time ago. All people are equal under God, skin color does not matter. The only thing that matters at the end when we stand in front of Him is who comes with the most piety and good deeds, as those will determine where you end up.

joshuamorton 4y ago
This doesn't conflict with CRT or modern leftism though. If God's accounting of our deeds is perfect (or if God doesn't exist) should have no impact on our actions. It would be sinful to let injustice persist solely because God will even things out in the end. God doesn't give us an excuse to abdicate our responsibility.
- azth 4y ago
  This doesn't contradict what I wrote. Islam explicitly rejects racism, and makes it sinful. Because we're equal in front of God, this means that anyone treating someone else differently because of their skin color, race, etc. is going to be accountable in front of God for this sin. It seems you're engaging in a straw man fallacy saying that we don't need to do anything because we're all eventually accountable in front of God. Islam never said that. Several texts and accounts explicitly call out racism as a sin. CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. It is not the beacon of equality that its supporters claim it is.
  - joshuamorton 4y ago
    > Islam never said that. I agree, I never claimed Islam said that. I claim you said that, which misrepresents Islam! > CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. What about CRT does this? The core idea of CRT (as you use it) is, I think the recognition that inequality exists, that some people mistreat others and that we should recognize that when it happens. What about that is racist?
    - azth 4y ago
      > I claim you said that, which misrepresents Islam! Where did I say that? > What about that is racist? CRT, and many other far leftist ideologies conform to what we say in Arabic: "A word (claim) of truth by which falsehood is intended"[1]. We see the same with movements like BLM (with self proclaimed Marxist founders), etc. They're crafted in such a way that if you argue against their actual behavior or criticize their actual behavior, they are able to retort with their canned response: ah so you're against justice/equality/are racist/etc. These approaches are trite and people are waking up to them. We've known for millenia that inequality exists or the people are prone to mistreating others. CRT/latest fad of the day is not telling us anything new with that regard, but behind the scenes they're power grab movements. [1] كلمة حق يراد بها باطل
      - joshuamorton 4y ago
        I'll note that you didn't actually describe the particular things that CRT is that are problematic, only that it is in some vague way false. You haven't provided an argument, only a claim that they are in some way bad. Give the argument! > CRT/latest fad of the day is not telling us anything new I disagree. The CRT (again, insofar as it is a cultural thing that people argue against) functionally says that people who have power should account for the mistreatment and inequality when making decisions. This is problematic to some people.
        azth 4y ago
        CRT paints whites as inherently evil, and coins such ridiculous terms as "white adjacent". Everything is painted in terms of "white supremacy", and it's honestly getting tiring and trite, even for non whites. Everyone is starting to see through the drama and the bullying. Apparently, this is what's being taught now: https://i.redd.it/vwuw7529iws81.jpg https://i.redd.it/vwuw7529iws81.jpg. Just an oversimplification, and dumbing down of any conversation. It's no wonder those people have built a reputation for being impulsive and not being able to take any criticism, retorting to crying and making fusses when they can't defend their positions.

by azth 4y ago

joshuamorton 4y ago

This doesn't conflict with CRT or modern leftism though. If God's accounting of our deeds is perfect (or if God doesn't exist) should have no impact on our actions. It would be sinful to let injustice persist solely because God will even things out in the end. God doesn't give us an excuse to abdicate our responsibility.

azth 4y ago
This doesn't contradict what I wrote. Islam explicitly rejects racism, and makes it sinful. Because we're equal in front of God, this means that anyone treating someone else differently because of their skin color, race, etc. is going to be accountable in front of God for this sin. It seems you're engaging in a straw man fallacy saying that we don't need to do anything because we're all eventually accountable in front of God. Islam never said that. Several texts and accounts explicitly call out racism as a sin. CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. It is not the beacon of equality that its supporters claim it is.
- joshuamorton 4y ago
  > Islam never said that. I agree, I never claimed Islam said that. I claim you said that, which misrepresents Islam! > CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. What about CRT does this? The core idea of CRT (as you use it) is, I think the recognition that inequality exists, that some people mistreat others and that we should recognize that when it happens. What about that is racist?
  - azth 4y ago
    > I claim you said that, which misrepresents Islam! Where did I say that? > What about that is racist? CRT, and many other far leftist ideologies conform to what we say in Arabic: "A word (claim) of truth by which falsehood is intended"[1]. We see the same with movements like BLM (with self proclaimed Marxist founders), etc. They're crafted in such a way that if you argue against their actual behavior or criticize their actual behavior, they are able to retort with their canned response: ah so you're against justice/equality/are racist/etc. These approaches are trite and people are waking up to them. We've known for millenia that inequality exists or the people are prone to mistreating others. CRT/latest fad of the day is not telling us anything new with that regard, but behind the scenes they're power grab movements. [1] كلمة حق يراد بها باطل
    - joshuamorton 4y ago
      I'll note that you didn't actually describe the particular things that CRT is that are problematic, only that it is in some vague way false. You haven't provided an argument, only a claim that they are in some way bad. Give the argument! > CRT/latest fad of the day is not telling us anything new I disagree. The CRT (again, insofar as it is a cultural thing that people argue against) functionally says that people who have power should account for the mistreatment and inequality when making decisions. This is problematic to some people.
      - azth 4y ago
        CRT paints whites as inherently evil, and coins such ridiculous terms as "white adjacent". Everything is painted in terms of "white supremacy", and it's honestly getting tiring and trite, even for non whites. Everyone is starting to see through the drama and the bullying. Apparently, this is what's being taught now: https://i.redd.it/vwuw7529iws81.jpg https://i.redd.it/vwuw7529iws81.jpg. Just an oversimplification, and dumbing down of any conversation. It's no wonder those people have built a reputation for being impulsive and not being able to take any criticism, retorting to crying and making fusses when they can't defend their positions.