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Like it or not, this is the price of "privacy". Being able to easily pretend to be anyone, in the absence of an overarching identity framework -- and leaving id

Like it or not, this is the price of "privacy". Being able to easily pretend to be anyone, in the absence of an overarching identity framework -- and leaving identity recognition to the end user -- makes cybercrime a lot easier than it has to be.

mulmen 5y ago
Privacy does not mean anonymous interaction with known parties. It means the CIA can’t see me make an account transfer over the wire. In other words, without a warrant. Authentication and privacy are compatible. Privacy and anonymity are orthogonal.
- dreamcompiler 5y ago
  In theory the CIA cannot legally monitor anything about you if you're a US person, even with a warrant. That's the FBI's job. If you're not a US person the CIA can monitor you all day long without a warrant. In practice it's a bit messier than that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pphysch 5y ago
  The CIA can and will monitor your offline and online behavior if your profile is interesting to them. No amount of "muh privacy" appeals will stop them. Privacy and anonymity are absolutely not orthogonal. How do you KYC? By "violating" their privacy (storing and querying personal records) to identify (deanonymize) someone.
  - mulmen 5y ago
    > The CIA can and will monitor your offline and online behavior if your profile is interesting to them. That’s because we don’t have adequate privacy safeguards in modern western society. > Privacy and anonymity are absolutely not orthogonal. Privacy and anonymity are not synonymous. I can have a private conversation with a friend. That does not require anonymity. In fact it precludes anonymity because my friend and I know who each other are. Privacy says nobody else knows what we discussed or even that we had a conversation. > KYC? Know Your Client? This is a new term to me but sounds like an authentication concept. Which is compatible with privacy but precludes anonymity, by definition.
    - sdenton4 5y ago
      Know Your Customer, a vital concept in financial services, which basically makes it much easier to track down and prevent money laundering and fraud.
      - mulmen 5y ago
        I can privately communicate with my bank. But I cannot do so anonymously. LEO can’t see what I am doing on the wire. But with due process they can compel my bank to reveal what I have been doing with my money.
Workaccount2 5y ago
I agree with the easier part, but maybe not the "than it has to be" part.
dogman144 5y ago
This is a really upsidedown take. Spam was rampant prior to better safeguards around privacy, for one. It almost took down the internet iirc.
- pphysch 5y ago
  "Better safeguards around privacy"? How is Google or Cloudflare or NSA or whoever peeking at your incoming emails to determine what gets through good for "privacy"? That is upside down and backwards. Please explain.
  - dogman144 5y ago
    E2e encryption to prevent that peaking didn't really debut until the 2000's, as that's right when the crypto wars ended. Spam was actively fought in 1990's, and then improved measurably into 2000. See projects like Hashcash in 1997, anti-spam tool. So your premise doensn't make sense with that timeline. Right when consumer privacy measurably improved via encryption availability and the end of related legal challenges is right around the time spam improved as well. Which is to say, there is no correlation that's logical b/t the two in my mind, but if anything the timeline invalidates privacy improvements -> worsening spam without more evidence.
  - sdenton4 5y ago
    Html enabled email can easily contain tracking. Even without JavaScript, you could insert an img tag pointing at a uniquely generated address and log the query... It becomes a question of who you trust more: the service you've chosen for handling your email (and spam protection), or the people sending spam emails. If you don't trust your provider, you should find another provider.
    - SapporoChris 5y ago
      Most email clients have the option to not autoload images. I set my client to not autoload, it is easy enough to click to load an image if I think I want to see it. In most cases I do not!
mindslight 5y ago
The bank account and the bank that the funds were misdirected to both have government-issued identities attached, so exactly what "privacy" are you talking about?

mulmen 5y ago

Privacy does not mean anonymous interaction with known parties. It means the CIA can’t see me make an account transfer over the wire. In other words, without a warrant. Authentication and privacy are compatible. Privacy and anonymity are orthogonal.

dreamcompiler 5y ago
In theory the CIA cannot legally monitor anything about you if you're a US person, even with a warrant. That's the FBI's job. If you're not a US person the CIA can monitor you all day long without a warrant. In practice it's a bit messier than that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pphysch 5y ago
The CIA can and will monitor your offline and online behavior if your profile is interesting to them. No amount of "muh privacy" appeals will stop them. Privacy and anonymity are absolutely not orthogonal. How do you KYC? By "violating" their privacy (storing and querying personal records) to identify (deanonymize) someone.
- mulmen 5y ago
  > The CIA can and will monitor your offline and online behavior if your profile is interesting to them. That’s because we don’t have adequate privacy safeguards in modern western society. > Privacy and anonymity are absolutely not orthogonal. Privacy and anonymity are not synonymous. I can have a private conversation with a friend. That does not require anonymity. In fact it precludes anonymity because my friend and I know who each other are. Privacy says nobody else knows what we discussed or even that we had a conversation. > KYC? Know Your Client? This is a new term to me but sounds like an authentication concept. Which is compatible with privacy but precludes anonymity, by definition.
  - sdenton4 5y ago
    Know Your Customer, a vital concept in financial services, which basically makes it much easier to track down and prevent money laundering and fraud.
    - mulmen 5y ago
      I can privately communicate with my bank. But I cannot do so anonymously. LEO can’t see what I am doing on the wire. But with due process they can compel my bank to reveal what I have been doing with my money.

Workaccount2 5y ago

I agree with the easier part, but maybe not the "than it has to be" part.

dogman144 5y ago

This is a really upsidedown take. Spam was rampant prior to better safeguards around privacy, for one. It almost took down the internet iirc.

pphysch 5y ago
"Better safeguards around privacy"? How is Google or Cloudflare or NSA or whoever peeking at your incoming emails to determine what gets through good for "privacy"? That is upside down and backwards. Please explain.
- dogman144 5y ago
  E2e encryption to prevent that peaking didn't really debut until the 2000's, as that's right when the crypto wars ended. Spam was actively fought in 1990's, and then improved measurably into 2000. See projects like Hashcash in 1997, anti-spam tool. So your premise doensn't make sense with that timeline. Right when consumer privacy measurably improved via encryption availability and the end of related legal challenges is right around the time spam improved as well. Which is to say, there is no correlation that's logical b/t the two in my mind, but if anything the timeline invalidates privacy improvements -> worsening spam without more evidence.
- sdenton4 5y ago
  Html enabled email can easily contain tracking. Even without JavaScript, you could insert an img tag pointing at a uniquely generated address and log the query... It becomes a question of who you trust more: the service you've chosen for handling your email (and spam protection), or the people sending spam emails. If you don't trust your provider, you should find another provider.
  - SapporoChris 5y ago
    Most email clients have the option to not autoload images. I set my client to not autoload, it is easy enough to click to load an image if I think I want to see it. In most cases I do not!

mindslight 5y ago

The bank account and the bank that the funds were misdirected to both have government-issued identities attached, so exactly what "privacy" are you talking about?